Railcraft Creosote & Semiliquid Generators (again)

  • There was a recent suggeston/bug discussion about semiliquid generators & creosote in this section. I'd link to it but I cannot (I'm a newb).


    In my creative mode Semiliquid Generators can burn creosote. When I build the exact same structure in Survival mode it will not burn creosote. That looks like a bug to me, or at least it looks suspiciously inconsistent. I understand from the previous discussion that there was no plan to make creosote work this way, but if it works in creative it surely ought to work in Survival.


    So what's the deal - Is Railcraft's creosote supposed to be a valid fuel-source for a Semiliquid Generator or not?


    I'm running IC2 2.0.316-experimental, the version that was bundled into the DW20 mod-pack.

  • How are you inserting the creosote oil? Are you using buckets, bottles, cells, or are you pumping the oil directly into the generator?

    Edited once, last by ton2790: Blasted phone keyboards are impossible to type on. ().

  • Yeah, I am glad that someone brings this issue back up. It was unusually dropped/ignored when I did. I will explain why creosote oil should be fuel for the semifluid Generator:


    First, the IC2 team added this machine. Therefore, they must register the fuels for it. Currently, there are no fuels registered for it. In other mods, like Railcraft and Forestry, there are devices designed for IC2. For example, the Steam Turbine. Did the Railcraft team just add this new machine, and tell the IC2 team to make it output IC2 energy? Of course not! So why should this be accepted from a different modding team?


    Second, there are many instances of other popular mods adding stuff designed for IC2 (steam turbine, Electric Engine, acceptance of Bronze as a material in the rolling machine to make rails from, etc.), yet the IC2 team has not made a damn thing designed for said mods. Not even a single item or alternate recipe. The other teams worked hard to make something that promotes IC2, and the IC2 team does nothing for them. I don't know about you, but to me, that seems very rude. They should do atleast SOMEthing for those other mods, and with the Semifluid generator, they can do just that. All they have to do is add a few lines of code to register Creosote Oil as a fuel for the generator.


    I hope this helps you people understand why this is so important, why it matters, and why the change should be done. As always, thank you for taking your time to read this, unlike many others who just keep scrolling as soon as they see that I posted.

    • Official Post

    the IC2 team has not made a damn thing designed for said mods. Not even a single item or alternate recipe. The other teams worked hard to make something that promotes IC2, and the IC2 team does nothing for them.


    Seems a bit unfair, the semi-fluid generator was all coded ready for other mod's fuels to be added. IC2 really doesn't have much that other mods want past an E-net, which mostly only direct IC2 addons use.

    145 Mods isn't too many. 9 types of copper and 8 types of tin aren't too many. 3 types of coffee though?

    I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realise that what you read was not what I meant.


    ---- Minecraft Crash Report ----
    // I just don't know what went wrong :(


    I see this too much.

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    Therefore, they must


    Must? At what point did they agree to do anything for anybody in the community?


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    Currently, there are no fuels registered for it.


    BC Oil is registered
    BC Fuel is registered
    Forestry Biomass is registered
    Forestry Biofuel is registered


    I can burn all 4 of those in the semi-fluid generator. And I do think that those fuels are supported because they are easier to balance around for production and power generation than Creosote Oil. Plus, considering creosote oil is mostly a by-product of coal coking, I could see where several exploits could be considered as far as getting more EU output from coal via this process of refining it...

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    Quote

    this isn't about arrogance or ego, I have a block that I put a lot of freaking work into


    Every Mod Author, in existence. And yet, you STILL say otherwise.


  • How dare you dissect my post. If you are going to reply, quote it entirely or only one part of it. My posts have a meaning as a whole, and when you break them down like that, they lose connection and become confusing/incorrect. It is also inherently lying, to do this, because by breaking the post into pieces, you focus on their individual meanings, which when stated independently from each other, can stray very far from the collective purpose of them all.
    About your reply - if those fuels are already registered, then why isn't Creosote Oil registered? Your excuse that it allows more EU to be made from Coal is invalid, because that is the purpose of the Coke Oven - to increase the efficiency of Coal. Both coal and creosote can be burned in Railcraft Steam Boilers aswell. And if you actually take a second to take a look at it, creosote doesn't even burn for very much at all in said boiler. It is a crappy fuel, and the burning of it is meant to be a way to get rid of it without completely destroying it/voiding it - like the Recycler making scrap from useless crap. Thus, it should be able to be burned in the semifluid generator, just returning very little EU per unit, as compared to Oil or Biomass.

  • In summary, I can wholeheartedly sympathize with the IC2 team not wanting to add yet another edge-case to handle for some other mod's object. Who knows how many other fuel-like substances the RC team might decide to add in future patches.


    The fact that this has been done in the past does not necessarily imply that it's the right thing to do in the future - it may have been the wrong thing to do in the past.


    Supposing that we were to agree that it's the RailCraft team's responsibility to set a burn-value in anything that might be conceivably used as an IC2 fuel. Is there somebody we can approach who might be willing to consider this suggestion?


    I'm still perplexed about the inconsistency issue: In the current DW20 mod-pack in single-player creative mode you CAN use creosote as a fuel in the semiliquid generator. For some reason it does not work in my multiplayer Survival-mode game. Can anybody think of a good reason why these objects might behave differently?

  • Quote

    How dare you dissect my post.



    Quote

    If you are going to reply, quote it entirely or only one part of it. My posts have a meaning as a whole, and when you break them down like that, they lose connection and become confusing/incorrect. It is also inherently lying, to do this, because by breaking the post into pieces, you focus on their individual meanings, which when stated independently from each other, can stray very far from the collective purpose of them all.


    Your whining and complaining is dully noted and ignored....


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    About your reply - if those fuels are already registered, then why isn't Creosote Oil registered? Your excuse that it allows more EU to be made from Coal is invalid, because that is the purpose of the Coke Oven - to increase the efficiency of Coal.


    Actually, the purpose of the Coke Oven is to create Coke Coal, which is more effective at manufacturing Steel than Charcoal. The byproduct (which is what Creosote Oil actually is) has other applications in Railcraft besides fuel contribution (even thought that is available to Boilers as a fuel, anyway)...


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    Both coal and creosote can be burned in Railcraft Steam Boilers aswell. And if you actually take a second to take a look at it, creosote doesn't even burn for very much at all in said boiler. It is a crappy fuel, and the burning of it is meant to be a way to get rid of it without completely destroying it/voiding it - like the Recycler making scrap from useless crap. Thus, it should be able to be burned in the semifluid generator, just returning very little EU per unit, as compared to Oil or Biomass.


    The cost for creating a Semi-Fluid Generator is nowhere near as high as creating an efficient Steam Boiler. The amount of Steel required for said power producer is quite large, and given this fact would be the reason why you would have tanks of Creosote Oil anyway, considering how much coke coal you'd need for said Steel anyway...


    So basically, you want a buff to Coal so that it produces 8000 EU + whatever extra from Creosote Oil. Which, at default settings, has better EU output than lava, and materialistically cheaper than going Nuclear or Solar/Wind/Water..


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    I'm still perplexed about the inconsistency issue: In the current DW20 mod-pack in single-player creative mode you CAN use creosote as a fuel in the semiliquid generator. For some reason it does not work in my multiplayer Survival-mode game. Can anybody think of a good reason why these objects might behave differently?


    More than likely a bug that still needs to be addressed, imo...

    Would anyone like to try a Slowpoke Tail?! Only 1 Million Yen!


    Quote

    this isn't about arrogance or ego, I have a block that I put a lot of freaking work into


    Every Mod Author, in existence. And yet, you STILL say otherwise.

  • My reason still stands - one should be able to burn Creosote in the Semifluid generator, because it is burnable in a boiler firebox. Not making this change is like denying that another mod's wood be burnable in a basic generator, because there are entire forests of the trees said wood is made from, even if it is burnable as fuel in a basic furnace.
    Be a civilized human being, and stop attacking a simple bugfix suggestion like this. If you don't want to burn creosote in a generator, fine, just don't install Railcraft.

    • Official Post

    SegFaulter: If you don't want your Post to be broken into pieces, then dont make it breakable into pieces, or better, make it breakable at the Points YOU choose, so that they keep their meaning.


    MagusUnion: Creosote is just 3EU/Liter or 3000EU per Bucket. So it is basically neither worth to add to the Semifluid Generator, nor worth to be discussed as OP Material.

    • Official Post

    Some people may choose to use coke oven charcoal with creosote for maximum efficiency, so i still think its worth adding. Its not the matter it is efficient or not, but the matter that you gave the player another option for him to choose.

  • Then why did you make a giant unnecessary post explaining "Why Creosote Should Be Fuel"? If the liquid is already a fuel type, it isn't relevant.


    Because it was being attacked, or was going to be. And sure enough, the flamers came to destroy the people's hopes of burning Creosote Oil in the semifluid generator.
    It was necessary, to keep all of the people from ignorantly "ok"-ing the flamers' quick decision to not let the bug be fixed, or to have the inclusion of Creosote as fuel, removed entirely.

  • Quote

    MagusUnion: Creosote is just 3EU/Liter or 3000EU per Bucket. So it is basically neither worth to add to the Semifluid Generator, nor worth to be discussed as OP Material.


    So 11k EU per piece of Coal. Assuming that Wither Skele farms are viable to make Coal a renewable resource, I'd fine that to be a bit problematic. Of course, there's the Coking Charcoal method, which would yield the same result off of a tree farm. (Reason I say it's the same is because you need 2x as much Wood to make 1 Creosote Oil bucket. So you gain 2x Charcoal, plus the 1 fuel bucket)...


    Course, if you don't have a problem with it Greg, then I guess it's fine by me, lol...


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    It was necessary, to keep all of the people from ignorantly "ok"-ing the flamers' quick decision to not let the bug be fixed, or to have the inclusion of Creosote as fuel, removed entirely.


    Don't delude yourself in thinking you have the power to force or prevent a mod development action on IC2. I don't have that power either. The only thing you can do is voice your opinion, and "hope" that people side with it. If you feel that your opinion lacks the strength to stand on it's own, you should question its validity then...

    Would anyone like to try a Slowpoke Tail?! Only 1 Million Yen!


    Quote

    this isn't about arrogance or ego, I have a block that I put a lot of freaking work into


    Every Mod Author, in existence. And yet, you STILL say otherwise.