still will be making tons of LV machines at the endgame
I think the only way to change it - make machines of all tiers same efficient. Or make it configurable at least.
[GregTech-5][1.7.10-FORGE-1355+][Unofficial but approved Port][Stable] Even GT5 Experimental is slowly getting stable.
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One thought: What you think about Ore Washer, Cutting Machine and other water using machines, producing dirty water? So it could be filtered and used again?
I know it would be a little more complicated - as some machines would need a output tank, and different from multiblocks, they don't void excess fluid - but I think that this could be kinda good to finite water users...
Honestly, I think its a good idea. I'm just not sure how many people would use it, and I'm not sure whether the machines could easily support two tanks (input/output). Ends may not justify the means.
I don't know Blood plans to this mod, But I would interesting if all high level machines ( >EV ) had multiblock versions (we already have a Smelter as a furnace alternative), So this output would be easy to do.
I like this idea for streamlining reasons. At a general level, all the machines should sorta follow the same schema.
And while I didn't wanted to go off-topic, I really want to say that I dislike the idea of the need of a Processing Array, for things like the fusion reactor.
Don't get wrong, Blood's idea great, but to mitigate another problem: the higher's tier EU consuption, forcing the lv machines spam.End game I don't really wanted to produce tons of LV centrifuges to put inside a multiblock.
Anyone who has tolerated one of my rants on the subject (all none of you) will recognize this as one of my pet peeves with GT5. It defies a critical part of fundamental game design: you can't punish a player for upgrading, and you can't confuse upgrading with overclocking.When we "upgrade" our machinery in GT with better materials, all we're really doing is overclocking them. With the exception of the macerator, which has a legitimate upgrade scheme.
For the rest, you're getting more speed at the cost of way more power. Its silly. Overclocking should be available from day 1, and upgrades should be a seperate notion altogether.
My opinion? All machines should do "better", one way or the other, as you progress. If that means an EV centrifuge should produce 8 tiny dusts instead of 1, so be it.
What's the word on the LHE output? Is a nerf inbound or am I safe to make a build assuming the current behavior is intended?
Not sure. -
When we "upgrade" our machinery in GT with better materials, all we're really doing is overclocking them. With the exception of the macerator, which has a legitimate upgrade scheme.
Technically, there is another exception: recipes that require a specific voltage. I think this mainly applies to the forming press, laser engraver, assembling machine, electrolyzer, extruder, and fluid extractor, though. Oh, and there's the higher chance of returning materials for the disassembler. However, I'll agree that other machines currently offer no incentive to build the higher tiers beyond the faster processing (and possibly less pollution once that gets implemented). Also, the macerator upgrade scheme is a bit limited, since there isn't much incentive to building at tiers other than LV and HV. (MV has no additional outputs; when recovering raw materials from machines, the arc furnace tends to be more attractive; and the stone/netherrack/etc. dust that ore blocks can give as the third macerator output can easily be obtained as primary outputs when macerating stone-type materials directly) -
Technically, there is another exception: recipes that require a specific voltage. I think this mainly applies to the forming press, laser engraver, assembling machine, electrolyzer, extruder, and fluid extractor, though. Oh, and there's the higher chance of returning materials for the disassembler. However, I'll agree that other machines currently offer no incentive to build the higher tiers beyond the faster processing (and possibly less pollution once that gets implemented). Also, the macerator upgrade scheme is a bit limited, since there isn't much incentive to building at tiers other than LV and HV. (MV has no additional outputs; when recovering raw materials from machines, the arc furnace tends to be more attractive; and the stone/netherrack/etc. dust that ore blocks can give as the third macerator output can easily be obtained as primary outputs when macerating stone-type materials directly)
Fair point
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Technically, there is another exception: recipes that require a specific voltage. I think this mainly applies to the forming press, laser engraver, assembling machine, electrolyzer, extruder, and fluid extractor, though. Oh, and there's the higher chance of returning materials for the disassembler. However, I'll agree that other machines currently offer no incentive to build the higher tiers beyond the faster processing (and possibly less pollution once that gets implemented). Also, the macerator upgrade scheme is a bit limited, since there isn't much incentive to building at tiers other than LV and HV. (MV has no additional outputs; when recovering raw materials from machines, the arc furnace tends to be more attractive; and the stone/netherrack/etc. dust that ore blocks can give as the third macerator output can easily be obtained as primary outputs when macerating stone-type materials directly)
GT5 Is great, but there's a thing I miss from the GT4: We progressed creating new machines, instead of more powerful versions of the same that we already have.
I have a chest with lots of old machines, like lv and mv assembler, mv forming press and laser engraver.
It's good to have this option to upgrade to a better version, but I don't like this idea of building a machine to use a few times until it becomes totally disposable. -
GT5 Is great, but there's a thing I miss from the GT4: We progressed creating new machines, instead of more powerful versions of the same that we already have.
I have a chest with lots of old machines, like lv and mv assembler, mv forming press and laser engraver.
It's good to have this option to upgrade to a better version, but I don't like this idea of building a machine to use a few times until it becomes totally disposable.
I prefer GT5 because of how much more there is to the logistics. The progress isn't spoon fed to you. You have a need to make more energy (because that's what's fun, right?) to process more materials and make bigger things to make more energy. You need to do much more complex designs in GT5 to get that power.With AE2 literally hundreds of machines get made, each with their own interface. One for tiny pipes, one for energy xtals, fluid extractor/solidifier combos for plates, nitrogen distillation for gunpowder for ITNT, etc. Even though the average machine gets used rarely they all have their use.
If GT5's lack of linearity bugs you don't even look at GT6. There's no straight path in materials. What you get day 1 is what you'll use on day 100. You'll be able to utilize the materials more effectively and get more of them but at tier 1 you have to choose between bronze, lead, and about 20 other metals. How you get your machines to do the things you want to is up to the materials you choose. There's no set breakpoint.
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What about 4 types of pollution then? Those are all chunk based too.
Water, soil, air and radiation.Each of them produced by machine types (and they can produce multiple types should it apply) and each of them having its negative effects on some other machines and environment.
Air pollution would slowly dissipate on its own, water and soil pollution would also dissipate on its own, but very very slowly, requiring active combat or it will reach critical levels fast.
Radiation pollution would also very very very very slowly dissipate on its own and there is little active combat to be done, if an area is radiated it is because someone was an idiot and blew a reactor and/or leaked waste, simple.Machines with moving parts would pollute water and soil due the residues produced on the processing of stuff (macerators, extractors, compressors et cetera).
Machines that burns stuff would pollute air.
Chemical reactor, ore washing and Tcentrifuges would heavily pollute water, soil and air due the heavy chemical processing.I'm overcomplicating? Yes. Do I care? Not really, I just wanted to show my idea. If nobody likes it, it will fade just like all the others.
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What about 4 types of pollution then? Those are all chunk based too.
Water, soil, air and radiation.Each of them produced by machine types (and they can produce multiple types should it apply) and each of them having its negative effects on some other machines and environment.
Air pollution would slowly dissipate on its own, water and soil pollution would also dissipate on its own, but very very slowly, requiring active combat or it will reach critical levels fast.
Radiation pollution would also very very very very slowly dissipate on its own and there is little active combat to be done, if an area is radiated it is because someone was an idiot and blew a reactor and/or leaked waste, simple.Machines with moving parts would pollute water and soil due the residues produced on the processing of stuff (macerators, extractors, compressors et cetera).
Machines that burns stuff would pollute air.
Chemical reactor, ore washing and Tcentrifuges would heavily pollute water, soil and air due the heavy chemical processing.I'm overcomplicating? Yes. Do I care? Not really, I just wanted to show my idea. If nobody likes it, it will fade just like all the others.
From a game design perspective, I seriously just look at that and say "can I combine it into one pollution concept? Yes, I can" :pI love the idea of multiple pollution types, the issue is one of mechanics. There's no fundamental difference between them other than dissipation rates, and it raises all kinds of questions of "why does air pollution affect my macerator half as much as soil pollution, that makes no sense" and I don't wanna deal with it :p
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I'm against pollution affecting certain types of machines. Like that macerator.
Make pollution be a harm to living things and only some machines that make sense to be affected. -
I prefer GT5 because of how much more there is to the logistics. The progress isn't spoon fed to you. You have a need to make more energy (because that's what's fun, right?) to process more materials and make bigger things to make more energy. You need to do much more complex designs in GT5 to get that power.With AE2 literally hundreds of machines get made, each with their own interface. One for tiny pipes, one for energy xtals, fluid extractor/solidifier combos for plates, nitrogen distillation for gunpowder for ITNT, etc. Even though the average machine gets used rarely they all have their use.
If GT5's lack of linearity bugs you don't even look at GT6. There's no straight path in materials. What you get day 1 is what you'll use on day 100. You'll be able to utilize the materials more effectively and get more of them but at tier 1 you have to choose between bronze, lead, and about 20 other metals. How you get your machines to do the things you want to is up to the materials you choose. There's no set breakpoint.
Well, I didn't say I prefer GT4, it was about the only thing I liked better, comparing now. And I agree with you, the logistics are almost perfect on GT5.
And liked the ore veins too.
I think my problem is with the old machines, really. If I could disassemble manually by hand, 100% efficiency, I would be happy ( I mean, I'd assembled it. So i know how to disassemble it too).
But I understand that must be a balance thing
I'm happy that I have this option with the IV machine (paying 20.000.000eu to do it), I just have to get used to it...(...)
I'm overcomplicating? Yes. Do I care? Not really, I just wanted to show my idea. If nobody likes it, it will fade just like all the others.LOOK PYURE, REALISM! GET HIM!!!
I like the variety which we can destroy the environment, that would be fun. -
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LOOK PYURE, REALISM! GET HIM!!!
COME AT ME BRO!
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I would love to see pollution like this in gregtech : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq8GYaSZHF4. I think it would be good model for every kind of pollution
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I'm against pollution affecting certain types of machines. Like that macerator.
Make pollution be a harm to living things and only some machines that make sense to be affected.
If I can I'll make it configurable so you can tweak it for machines where it bothers you.The point here isn't to model realistic pollution impacts. I can argue that a macerator would clog up from particulate matter, but its irrelevant. What I want to accomplish is "fuck, why are my macerators running so slow? Oh, its because I'm trying to run an EV industry from Lava. Aren't I lame."
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If I can I'll make it configurable so you can tweak it for machines where it bothers you.The point here isn't to model realistic pollution impacts. I can argue that a macerator would clog up from particulate matter, but its irrelevant. What I want to accomplish is "fuck, why are my macerators running so slow? Oh, its because I'm trying to run an EV industry from Lava. Aren't I lame."
But lava's such a natural choice. How much blood must be bled to earn stable EU? -
I hope there is an option to turn off the pollution. I am all for needing chimneys on muffler hatches to vent it outside, witch I already do for looks. but I run different kinds of power generators. I like to use up what I find/make that is stacking up, My last GT5 world I had lava boilers x 12, railcraft boiler for creosote oil,gas turbines for methane, diesel gens for my forestry ethanol, and nitro diesel, IC2 windmills, and a IC2 reactor. I do most things manually and on a smaller scale.
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But lava's such a natural choice. How much blood must be bled to earn stable EU?
I suppose he's talking about the lava boilers, not the LHE.
At least I hope so... -
BTW since we're talking about lava:
Can anyone suggest a scheme to transport lava from Nether to my base in the Overworld? -
BTW since we're talking about lava:
Can anyone suggest a scheme to transport lava from Nether to my base in the Overworld?
thermal expansion tesseracts
batteries + battery buffer (use with an energy detector + shutter module) or steel steam cells + turbine for item based power
fluid channel for the lavaIf that's not your thing you can use ender chests moving cells of bother lava and steam/batteries. You can discriminate which one goes where on both ends using item filters. This setup is a little less compact (more difficult to move) but works using vanilla items (or the common chickenchunks mod).
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It's been a while since I tried, but the most simple way/mod to do it is Ender storage, using a Ender Tank.
It feels a little cheap as it doesn't cost EU or fuel.As I use Thaumcraft, I'll try using fluid canner + Item mirrors. It will be fun to automate...
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But lava's such a natural choice. How much blood must be bled to earn stable EU?
I thiiiink you're kidding here? :p
Zero blood must be shed. You can use lava in the early game with zero repurcussions. Want to have a HP lava boiler? Go nuts. Want three? With the rest of your industry, possibly a minor impact. Want 10? You're gonna have problems.
Blood is only shed when you try to abuse lava instead of progressing, not when you want to use it when its sensible to do so.I hope there is an option to turn off the pollution. I am all for needing chimneys on muffler hatches to vent it outside, witch I already do for looks. but I run different kinds of power generators. I like to use up what I find/make that is stacking up, My last GT5 world I had lava boilers x 12, railcraft boiler for creosote oil,gas turbines for methane, diesel gens for my forestry ethanol, and nitro diesel, IC2 windmills, and a IC2 reactor. I do most things manually and on a smaller scale.
There will at the very least be a blanket option to turn pollution on/off. Not everyone wants to deal with that crap. Pollution is for hardcore players or usage in specific themed packs. Its not for everyone.Ideally it will additionally be configurable so that you can say "methane generations incur pollution but lava boilers do not" if you so choose. JSON config specifically because I heart that format.
At least I hope so...
LHE is an advanced tech. While it won't be nearly as clean as processing hot coolant (which will be probably be entirely pollution free) it won't be nearly as filthy as an ancient HP Coal Boiler either. The LHE intelligently outputs a byproduct already, pahoehoe, which itself would contain a lot of the contaminants.
