[AddOn v1.43/v1.64] Advanced Machines V3.2 Beta 2

Quote from pyroprogramer

If server owners really want to help prevent that "race" the config has a very simple solution simply add cobble stone to the list and a cobble gen is useless (though adding moonstone and/or sand) might be needed as well) the only down side of this is that it does make so one of the god things about the recycle goes away; where to throw your spare useless stuff

I think if you're going to do that you would also need to add smoothstone, sand, snowballs, snowblocks, ice, gravel etc. Because all these can be made with a blockbreaker and a simple machine operation too. The effort to remove all this would be so difficult you may as well remove the recycler from crafting.

Quote from xKillerbees

I was just complaining about this last night. It's not the recyclers, it's the ability to create free cobble with gens. Adding cobble to that list wouldn't be very bright for a server owner.

I'm glad your server hasnt been overcome with snowmen yet then :p Once people on my server realised how much more you can produce with snowmen and blockbreakers compared to cobble generators they went nuts.

But what other reason would they have for using cobble gens? Unless you're recycling that cobble into scrap or into EMC in Equivalent Exchange, I can't really see a reason for wanting to make it in those quantities.

Quote from xKillerbees

I was just complaining about this last night. It's not the recyclers, it's the ability to create free cobble with gens. Adding cobble to that list wouldn't be very bright for a server owner.

I disable recyclers and most my players seem to agree on it. And even then UU Matter is spitting out of their arses lol.

Quote from xKillerbees

I was just complaining about this last night. It's not the recyclers, it's the ability to create free cobble with gens. Adding cobble to that list wouldn't be very bright for a server owner.

Actually, there is another solution if you are using Bukkit server, which you are probably.

Well you just make a permission like:
(If using ModifyWorld), but you probably get the point
[RedPower]
Permissions:
- -modify.break.4
At least it makes it more difficult to make automated ones using redpower, that should just make it a bit more difficult

Quote from HeadHunter67

But what other reason would they have for using cobble gens? Unless you're recycling that cobble into scrap or into EMC in Equivalent Exchange, I can't really see a reason for wanting to make it in those quantities.

Oh no I agree with you. But you cant ban one thing from the recyclers without having to ban all the others which can be mass produced just as easily, and then finding a way to ban people from using snowmen and blockbreakers to mass produce as well.
All I was suggesting is you'd be better off banning either the recycler, or the block breaker. I would suggest the recycler more as people on my server also make large machines for scrap production purely to auto-crafting-table them in to scrap boxes then use a redpower item deployer to spam out random items, which can then be sorted and macerated /smelted / binned. At least, thats what I do :p But I'm a bad admin.
So my main point is, banning one or two items wouldnt solve the problem.

Quote from Krisavi

Actually, there is another solution if you are using Bukkit server, which you are probably.

Well you just make a permission like:
(If using ModifyWorld), but you probably get the point
[RedPower]
- -modify.break.4
At least it makes it more difficult to make automated ones ising redpower, that should just make it a bit more difficult

So [RedPower] acts as the user name?

Cobblestone Generators cause a lot of lag even on small servers...

The only real way to fix it is to either disable the recycler (no getting scrap for random junk anymore), or disable the block breaker...

The block breaker can be used for a lot more then the recycler- for other uses then the cobblestone generator...

The biggest issue lies with cobblestone generators existing in the first place. Core Minecraft exploit- Eloraam just allows us to abuse it on a much, much larger scale.

Indeed- I'm inclined to agree with you guys that the underlying issue is the ability to create scrap at all. Not that it's imbalanced in and of itself - UU-Matter is still pretty expensive even with scrap - but if the recycler encourages people to set up mechanisms that bring a server to its knees, then the server admins understandablyh want to address it in some way.

I suppose it makes sense - if you blacklist cobble, they'll turn to cane farms or something. But those things don't seem to have as detrimental an effect on server performance.

Quote from HeadHunter67

Indeed- I'm inclined to agree with you guys that the underlying issue is the ability to create scrap at all. Not that it's imbalanced in and of itself - UU-Matter is still pretty expensive even with scrap - but if the recycler encourages people to set up mechanisms that bring a server to its knees, then the server admins understandablyh want to address it in some way.

I suppose it makes sense - if you blacklist cobble, they'll turn to cane farms or something. But those things don't seem to have as detrimental an effect on server performance.

Hah! Lies! I once copied over a building schematic for a sugercane farm that produced about 70,000 cane per hour! That massacred us all :p
But yeah theres 2 key problems in the game atm. One is getting cobble from water and lava out of nowhere, and the other is getting snow from snowmen tiles in unlimited quantities. These are both features of vanilla that can be exploited with the block breaker. The breaker in itself isnt an issue but I dont know of a way to solve the blocks they use?

Quote from HeadHunter67

I suppose it makes sense - if you blacklist cobble, they'll turn to cane farms or something. But those things don't seem to have as detrimental an effect on server performance.

Depends if they want to get the same amount of scrap. Sure, their timer is only once every 60 seconds, instead of 1.5- But they'll have 25 friggin chunks of space dedicated to the farm.

(So, that guy above me, essentially.)

Not sure why their are arguments about playstyle. You should be fighting for the ability to be able to customize more for your own playstyle... Not try to forge people always with your own ways.

It's not about playstyle - it's about the effects of that playstyle on a server's performance.
I'm all for "play your own way" and I don't like it when others tell me how to play - but if you're on someone's server, they set the rules for the enjoyment of everyone.

I'd hope that common courtesy is still a valued trait nowadays.

Now this thread has derailed into the pros and cons of recycler farms and mass fabs. any update about the addon in question?

Quote from Kane Hart

Not sure why their are arguments about playstyle. You should be fighting for the ability to be able to customize more for your own playstyle... Not try to forge people always with your own ways.

Not really arguments, it's more a discussion about sacrifices due to server limitation.

Quote from Killgore32

Now this thread has derailed into the pros and cons of recycler farms and mass fabs. any update about the addon in question?

Derailed? This add-on is the key to allowing the banning of large recycler plants, as one can just make more solar panels, and not giant scrap factories.

Quote from Killgore32

Now this thread has derailed into the pros and cons of recycler farms and mass fabs. any update about the addon in question?

I know, it's getting kind of off-topic but these issues are tangentially related to proposed machines for the add-on.

Why not just make it so that cobble, snow, as well as the other exploitable blocks can't be broken with the block breaker? This would keep recyclers able to serve their purpose, and stop people bringing the server to it's knees with cobble gens etc. It has very little draw back as well because I doubt people break cobble/snow/etc with the block breaker for any purpose other than mass item creation to scrap. Perhaps Eloraam could even add a config option for this in a future release if someone brought it to her attention.

Quote from 99percent

Why not just make it so that cobble, snow, as well as the other exploitable blocks can't be broken with the block breaker?

Because that would require modification of RedPower code, nothing to do with IC2. You're unlikely to convince Eloraam to change her mod becuase another mod exploits that, but even if she's willing, it would be a much lower priority for her than enabling the config options she already plans to implement.

Quote from 99percent

Why not just make it so that cobble, snow, as well as the other exploitable blocks can't be broken with the block breaker? This would keep recyclers able to serve their purpose, and stop people bringing the server to it's knees with cobble gens etc. It has very little draw back as well because I doubt people break cobble/snow/etc with the block breaker for any purpose other than mass item creation to scrap. Perhaps Eloraam could even add a config option for this in a future release if someone brought it to her attention.

Anything that naturally grows (minus wheat) can be 'exploited' by the Block Breaker.

Cactus doesn't require it, but it can be used. Reeds are a big one. Melons and Pumpkins are possible as well. Technically you could also do Trees, although requiring larger systems.

By removing the ability to break these blocks, you remove nice RP2 Automatic farms.

Quote from Kane Hart

So [RedPower] acts as the user name?

Yep, pseudouser, basically there is [IndustrialCraft], [BuildCraft] and [Forestry] too. all with the []. For BC and Forestry they made it so you can change in configs, but others I think not. I stumbled upon them when messed with towny and my cobble generator refused to work, gave some permissions and it started working. Also they are logged into Hawkeye :/, Around 100M of logs per day...