Kirara Reborn Official Announcement Thread

    The current state of AE2 mod seems a bit strange - you need insane amounts of titanium to make fluid cells and to make titanium you need to handle fluids. There's nothing but a quartz tank combined with pumps to handle this. Also seeds aint used in this AE2.


    Is it the normal way and the way its going to be ? i dont want to start on something this sick if it gets nerfed tomorrow :)


    The storage cells are stainless steel and such but there's no seeds for that either - but just need to know if this is working as intended.

    Quote from Nexey_

    The fact only one person actually complained about it proves it's more of a personal problem towards Airam than actually asking kindly to remove / redo these tweaks, and propose a solution that is not keeping the tweaker from GT5.


    For one, you can't seem to count. Almost half the playerbase complains about the tweaks publicly, and I'm sure of the remainder a lot are not satisfied. Additionally, I proposed a solution, reiterated it numerous times, only to have it be completely dismissed because "we don't need this much effort to be required for running the server".


    Quote from Nexey_

    Kosyak, since I'm speaking of you, I hope no offense is taken but telling someone how to do his job isn't a great act. And keep in mind Airam isn't Arch, so you can't expect him to be as great as Arch.


    I'm going to interject and say that while I don't expect Airam to be like Arch in any significant capacity, he doesn't even put forth the minimal effort to at least come across as being professional. Many loops/exploits exist in the scripts as the direct result of them being pushed onto live with little or no testing or planning, and he has literally stated things like "I am too lazy to make a changelog", "I am a player so I have no responsibilities", and continuously spends time flying around everywhere in creative instead of updating his script and fixing the outstanding problems. Many of the problems are fixable in under 5 minutes and I can do them in my own script, but I find it absurd that he is not taking responsibility for his own mess.


    It is true that he has undone the most egregious changes that the community has objected to, but it doesn't seem like he is actually interested in correcting the problem, only to make the playerbase shut up and not complain.


    Quote from Nexey_

    You (and everybody else) must stay respectful, write kindly and recognize the stuff Airam has done, even if he's provoked some accident recently and did some mistakes.


    I believe ignoring criticism is a much bigger dick move than anything we've done.


    Quote from Nexey_

    Arch was overbuned with all the people saying what was going wrong and complaining ALL THE TIME, so overbuned that he actually thought of leaving Kirara and stop funding the servers. I don't want to see another admin / mod / tweaker / whatever Airam is being infuriated, stressed out or even on the verge of throwing everything away.


    No offense intended, but Airam can go MIA today and I can do his job no problem. Whereas if you asked me to replace Arch I would not even attempt. You are grossly exaggerating his personal significance in keeping the server going. He has done a lot of changes and that takes effort, but all of that was done with zero feedback, zero consultation, and the fact that many things are so drastically changed was not in any way advertised to the users who signed up. Of course people will be dissatisfied. It may seem like nobody appreciates his hard work from Airam's perspective, and he will perceive it as unfair, but this is the direct result of his own actions (or more specifically, inaction).

    "I believe ignoring criticism is a much bigger dick move than anything we've done."
    (quoting with phone was too hard-core for me)
    I totally agree with you on that point, and I've even listen to criticism a long time ago (ask surio, or go back a few pages to see the logs of me discussing with him), so I hope no confusion was done within my paragraph, as I was talking about the fact that being respectful and recognizing the stuff Airam has done is the first step to a good community.
    But that leads me to another thinking. Perhaps you, and Kosyak, have been recognizing the stuff Airam has done since the beginning, but not in the good manner. Hence all the complains about that, and I fully understand the posts, even though I still disagree with being mean or saying you can do his job without any argument. Thanks for giving your arguments btw, that was much nicer than reading Kosyak's post. I've never talked to you before but I've always thought you were a nice person, now I know you're one.
    Sorry for not counting the player who complained publicly, but I feel like the problems that are really bothering somebody must be posted here. The total count was is 1, Kosyak, and Aies made his statement afterward which puts it to 2.
    Can you tell me what the solution you've proposed is? I've literally arrived on the server and felt like being part of the drama, at least to calm down the people (I'm no savior so I might be bad at this).
    And one more thing, if Airam can't do things properly, why don't you vote for kicking him out of his functions?

    Quote

    Java script, which happens to be the language in which minecraft is coded

    Most of the complaining happens in in-game chat and IRC which is probably why you didn't see it.


    My proposal is:
    - Fix all outstanding bugs
    - Poll the changes on spreadsheet
    - Disable changes that the majority of players do not want


    For the future, when a change is proposed:
    1. Draft the change and explain what it is - If the change is significant or affects game balance adversely, further elaborate what the goal of implementation is, and what the effects of implementing it will be
    2. Poll the change.
    3. If the vast majority of players either do not mind or want it, then write the relevant code and test it in SSP, or possibly on a test server (as we have free server slot now)
    4. Once it is deemed bug-free, release to KR.
    5. If said change severely penalizes certain players in a way that they could not have anticipated, or requires the removal of certain blocks/items from their base/possession, compensate them properly.


    For example, a significant change:

    Quote

    Compact solars: Solar panels will now be compressible to a higher tier in an assembling machine, e.g. 8 1V solar panels + 1 ULV transformer + 1440mB red alloy makes one 8V solar panel.
    Goal: Allow for more compact base and power supply without adversely affecting the balance, as well as reducing potential server lag and memory consumption from chunkloading large solar farms. The molten red alloy and transformer simulates the red alloy wire and transformer required to create a multiblock solar structure outputting 8V 1A.
    Effects: Players will be able to compress their solar panels. This is typically quite overpowered if scaled to a high enough level, but the adjusted cost will mean it does not consume less resources to build than an actual multiblock solar, and thus will not be a significant balance concern.


    And an insignificant change:

    Quote

    Bowl: This will allow users to craft a bowl from three wood planks.

    Pack your stuff up guys, apparently Airam is charging us in order for him to fix his script now.


    Two comments (mainly in response to Ishi):


    1.


    I prefer the don't fix what's not broken strategy in this context because most scripts have been fine, and if for some reason unreasonable changes come in, they can easily be reverted without any damage done. Having the proposed bureaucracy with the introduction of every script change would be a waste of time for everybody involved and I do not want to discourage scripters unnecessarily with the extra burden. If people start complaining about a script change and I'm present I will consider the arguments made against it as well as the impopularity of the change. If I'm not present you can make a poll about it in the spreadsheet and I can have a look at it later.


    2.


    Spacey did not sign up for anything and does not have any duties yet as an OP, but he is authorized to ban people who break the rules stated in the OP in a way that become a significant nusiance to players on the server as well as help people with stuff lost to glitches and add/remove people from teams requested by players as well as well as whitelisting, and spawning in things to test out whether they work and such. If you have an issue with him complain to me, and don't be disrespectful to him. I'll have him removed if I see him doing more harm than good.

    All your nerfs are belong to us

    As for "don't fix what's not broken", why not apply that to vanilla GT? Vanilla GT is fine, why are there scripts to "fix" it that are clearly not tested or thought through?


    My opinion is that if you have the time to tweak something, you have time to actually explain what you are doing, why you are doing it, and to prove that you actually thought the change through rather than just changing it because you can. Most of Airam's tweaks right now look haphazard, are inconsistent with the rest of GT, and often create loops/material dupe exploits. I can't see anyone with reasonable suggestions objecting to doing that - perhaps you had what seems like a good idea, but the process of writing down those things will let you think over everything. IMO if you cannot even spend <5 minutes to explain what you are doing, you shouldn't be implementing something that can potentially wash countless hours of gameplay down the drain.


    He signed up to tweak GT. In exchange for the ability to modify the gameplay experience, he should be responsible for maintaining his own work and fixing problems that arise as a result of what he has done. I don't see how it is fair that he is effectively in a position to detrimentally affect gameplay for 20+ people while having ZERO responsibility whatsoever.

    Sorry Ishi but you have things backwards. People who have contributed with scripts are on the thanks list in the thread for a reason. Spacey didn't sign up for anything. I ask you stop acting like spacey has responsibilities that he doesn't. I see a lot of yapping about detrimental effects but evidence for very little.

    All your nerfs are belong to us

    Quote from keda

    People who have contributed with scripts are on the thanks list in the thread for a reason. Spacey didn't sign up for anything. I ask you stop acting like spacey has responsibilities that he doesn't.


    Why is someone making changes not responsible for their own script? Why does he have mod status, when he threatens to ban me for asking him to fix his script? My TC script is the same size as every other script combined and you don't see people whining about my script every hour. When a change is proposed I implement it or have a discussion about why it's bad. When a problem occurs I try to fix it ASAP instead of insulting people by calling them weak-minded and lacking in critical thinking.


    Quote from keda

    I see a lot of yapping about detrimental effects but evidence for very little.


    Look at the chat. Look at server logs. Every single day at least half the discussion revolves around the negative effects of changes made by Airam. Even the guy who literally develops GregTech wants them removed and Airam continuously insists on having them. Most of them are poorly thought out, poorly balanced, and poorly implemented, messing up the tech tree, messing up the desirability of certain items in a way that makes them completely worthless, and often is totally inconsistent with every other GT recipe.


    What is the purpose of these tweaks? To make GT harder just because you can? Is the GT tech tree inherently imbalanced? Most of the tweaks should not exist because they literally only serve the purpose of changing a recipe for the worse for no real meaningful reason.


    Also, download my tweaks again and reload it. I can't figure out what the problem is as it loads in single player, so maybe something went wrong in the process of saving and packing, which should not happen again.

    Please fix the "tungsten Grinding Head" recipe.. it requires way too end-game tech to make, and you need it before that......


    http://prntscr.com/94dluf


    like the basic rock breaker in lv age, cannot be crafted until end-game stuff? ........


    or just run with normal GT recipes so that the balance isnt touched? .. there is probably many more recipes with loops :(


    what about letting the dev. of gt5u have a thing to say, now that he is active on the server? :)

    Quote from Nexey_

    I did not know GT was tweaked.


    What did you think the problem was? lol


    My vote is on removing the vast majority of tweaks and only keeping those that have an actual purpose besides "make it harder just because". A fair tweak that I'm 50/50 about would for example be the new jetpack recipe, which is actually doable in MV age with a bit of work. However, as the advanced circuit already requires MV in GT, this tweak doesn't do much in terms of balance.


    EDIT> I would also like to point out that as GT5 is still in development, it is very difficult to properly report bugs to BloodyAsp if the mod is tweaked. Most if not all of the balance/tech tree issues encountered thus far have all been due to the MT script and not GT5, with the sole exception being the battery alloy ratio. This is another reason why tweaking GT substantially is bad - we have direct access to the developer, if something is wrong with the mod's balance, he can fix it in the base game.

    Well I thought the problem was the tweaks in general, the furthest I went into GT is basic iron tools.

    Quote

    Java script, which happens to be the language in which minecraft is coded

    Current GregTech script (big credit to DreamMaster) (not on server yet):
    - Replaces normal furnace with iron furnace in some of recipes (such as EBF, MultiSmelter, Steam Boiler)
    - Changes hand-crafting of small gear - it's more pricey (2 rods and one plate).
    - Little tweak of brewery.
    - Implosion Compressor needs reinforced stone.
    - Small tweak of pumps (in-world).
    - Tweak of RTG pellet.
    - New recipes for Saltpeter.
    - Tweaked extruder recipe.
    - Tweak of field generators and quantum storages (all tiers)
    - Small tweak of EV and IV emitters.
    - Tweaked UV machine hull recipe/
    - New recipes for Diamond Sawblade, Diamond Grinding Head and Tungsten Grinding Head.
    - More craftable and usable alloys - Osmiridium, Shadow Iron (+steel), Damascus steel, Magnalium (tweaked recipe) etc.
    - HandCraft: Turning wood into wood pulp, glass into glass dust, salt ore into salt dust, flour.
    - Recipe for sealed wood handcraft.
    - Long rods craft.
    - Temporary removed craft of most of the solar panels.
    - Small transformers tweak (also improved compatibility with IC2 transformers).
    - More bronze recipes in alloy smelter (transition)
    - Graphene recipe in EBF.
    - New empty mold recipe.
    - Mold copy.

    What i mean is Extra cells are too hard atm - it takes way too many diamonds and titanium which is too hard to get - ordo said it will be replaced with stainless steel which makes more sense to me aswell.


    AE2 is ok - just needs pure certus quartz as a option aswell as certus quartz and pure fluix in extra cells - like it normally is :)

    We have multiple ways to store liquids - Quantum Tanks, RailCraft Tanks and ExtraCells are the most notable of it.
    About ExtaCells - it's hard to decide which material is fitting in here.
    Don't forget about the fact, that you can make industrial diamonds.
    Titanium is truly hard to get and might be an overkill;
    So I suggest for players to chose the most right one in their opinion.


    Just don't forget that ExtraCells are supposed to use different material from AE thus stainless steel is not the best option, but still aceptable.
    - Stainless steel - as said previously
    - Tungsten Carbide - easy to get, very energy hungry.
    - Vanadium Steel - easier than stainless.
    - HSLA Steel - not fitting, complex
    - Blue/Red Steel - too complex
    - Titanium - eh.


    Also, quartz will be unified.

    Quote from Airam

    - Tungsten Carbide - easy to get, very energy hungry.

    how do you mean easy? - Tungsten is only in the end, moon, mars..
    to make tungsten carbide you need a Kanthal coils (not cupronickel coil) for your EBF and HV power?


    To me AE2 And Extra Cells is an "storage mod" and "automatisation mod" of ITEMS and FLUIDS that you get from other mods with its own progression.


    so I cant see why AE2 and EC have recipe changes in the first place, since it "only" a storage mod? - there is metal/item/fluid progression in GT ? - these mods is only for storage, and wont interfere with progression??


    -also ae2 and ec is highly server cpu optimized? - so its good to use it, compared to other stuff?