option to use RF

  • dear develpers,
    would you mind adding a config setting to use RF instead of EU, because RF is the standard unit of power for mods, and while it might be a little op, it would be nice to have the option.
    thanks,
    the_cat

  • There is a Mod for that in the Addons Section.


    Also Immersive Engineering has a System that turns RF into EU when connected to IC2 Machines.

    Neither are for 1.8+ though. Suppose RF is also dying for the newer versions though, it would be Tesla or Forge Energy people would want instead.

    145 Mods isn't too many. 9 types of copper and 8 types of tin aren't too many. 3 types of coffee though?

    I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realise that what you read was not what I meant.


    ---- Minecraft Crash Report ----
    // I just don't know what went wrong :(


    I see this too much.

  • Neither are for 1.8+ though. Suppose RF is also dying for the newer versions though, it would be Tesla or Forge Energy people would want instead.


    The mod in the addons section might not be, but it looks to me like Immersive Engineering is available for 1.8+:
    https://minecraft.curseforge.c…cts/immersive-engineering


    Also, as far as Forge Energy, from what I've been able to find out about it, that is difficult for normal players to distinguish from RF. In fact, afaik, the unit involved is still called RF, even if the API is called Forge Energy.

  • The mod in the addons section might not be, but it looks to me like Immersive Engineering is available for 1.8+:
    https://minecraft.curseforge.com/project…ive-engineering

    It might be, but it's cables can't even move EU from 1.8. There is an addon for it to be able to move EU, but there's no way to use it to convert RF to EU (or the other way) anymore.

    Also, as far as Forge Energy, from what I've been able to find out about it, that is difficult for normal players to distinguish from RF. In fact, afaik, the unit involved is still called RF, even if the API is called Forge Energy.

    Fundamentally it is RF, but instead of being implemented by interfaces it uses capabilities. And a lot of the unit confusion is mods supporting a collection of RF, Tesla and Forge Energy and not acting any differently no matter what they're receiving.

    145 Mods isn't too many. 9 types of copper and 8 types of tin aren't too many. 3 types of coffee though?

    I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realise that what you read was not what I meant.


    ---- Minecraft Crash Report ----
    // I just don't know what went wrong :(


    I see this too much.

  • It might be, but it's cables can't even move EU from 1.8. There is an addon for it to be able to move EU, but there's no way to use it to convert RF to EU (or the other way) anymore.


    Sorry, your wording made it seem like you were saying IE wasn't available for 1.8+. So if it doesn't convert anymore in 1.8+, that leaves... Forestry as the only currently available 1.8+ mod that actually does EU to RF (technically Forge Energy I've been told) conversion? and nothing for the other way around?

  • Forestry as the only currently available 1.8+ mod that actually does EU to RF (technically Forge Energy I've been told) conversion? and nothing for the other way around?

    Directly yes. Mekanism cables are meant to be able to, but people have been having mixed results with it working, mostly not, and they crash you when you break them anyway. You can generate EU via some RF consuming method such as pumping lava or making biofuel, but there's nothing like the electric engine.

    145 Mods isn't too many. 9 types of copper and 8 types of tin aren't too many. 3 types of coffee though?

    I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realise that what you read was not what I meant.


    ---- Minecraft Crash Report ----
    // I just don't know what went wrong :(


    I see this too much.

  • You can generate EU via some RF consuming method such as pumping lava or making biofuel, but there's nothing like the electric engine.


    And my reaction is, why should this be? Why be dependent on someone else's mod to fulfill a function that should rightly be set in this one?


    As it stands, the Electric Engine is a 6 EU->20 RF (per tick) conversion rate, with a few addons to change the efficiency/output in various ways. That's what's setting the 'value' of EU in an otherwise RF-based system. (I'm using RF instead of FE or whatever here because that's what I see everywhere in every other mod's GUI.) Another mod, effectively, is telling every other mod how much IC2 energy is worth (and requires you to have it specifically, since it's the only game in town at this point).


    Why not have two blocks (or combine the function into one like a transformer, idk) for converting RF<->EU? (Optionally with some sort of internal buffer, but that's getting into the weeds more than I really want to here.) That way, within core IC2, the developers can make the decision on the 'currency exchange rate' (so to speak) between EU and RF, and if necessary add some sort of config option to tweak it more easily. That just seems to me to be the obvious option to lay this topic to rest, since I know it's come up before multiple times.

  • Why be dependent on someone else's mod to fulfill a function that should rightly be set in this one?

    Because the function to switch between fundamentally different power systems isn't one IC2 wants:

    As it stands, the Electric Engine is a 6 EU->20 RF (per tick) conversion rate, with a few addons to change the efficiency/output in various ways. That's what's setting the 'value' of EU in an otherwise RF-based system. (I'm using RF instead of FE or whatever here because that's what I see everywhere in every other mod's GUI.) Another mod, effectively, is telling every other mod how much IC2 energy is worth (and requires you to have it specifically, since it's the only game in town at this point).


    Why not have two blocks (or combine the function into one like a transformer, idk) for converting RF<->EU? (Optionally with some sort of internal buffer, but that's getting into the weeds more than I really want to here.) That way, within core IC2, the developers can make the decision on the 'currency exchange rate' (so to speak) between EU and RF, and if necessary add some sort of config option to tweak it more easily. That just seems to me to be the obvious option to lay this topic to rest, since I know it's come up before multiple times.

    The electric engine exists for the sake of being able to run Forestry farms on EU. The rate is actually quite bad considering it's normally considered to be 1 EU = 4 RF (if you look at coal in generators), but that's Forestry encouraging you to use circuit board to make it better, or to just an RF power source (such as the other engines it adds).


    It's those two factors (rate and encouragement to be used) that is crucial to any conversion. Rate in this case is normally taken to be 1 EU = 4 RF, but if you look at other parts then it can be 1 EU = 8.3 RF, 1 EU = 12 RF or even if you look at consumption a macerator takes 2 EU/t to run, other mods equivalents can take hundreds of RF/t to run, which suddenly makes the rate rather big. And depending on this rate will give the other factor - will it be used. If the rate is terrible people won't bother, defeating the whole effort, but if it's too good then people will start exploiting it. The fact there's no definitively correct conversion is why trying to convert between EU and RF/FE/T is never a good idea, either you'll end up never making IC2's generators or it will be too expensive to try and you'll just take another route. Even if there was a good perfect ratio, it gives the completely wrong message to people that IC2 can be powered using RF, as people won't bother making IC2 generators if they can just hook up their several thousand a tick RF power and be done with it. The other way slightly less so, as investing in IC2's infrastructure is normally going to be much more expensive than an equivalent RF, but that just leaves people to use RF generators for RF things and their IC2 setup for IC2 (which in the end is the best solution as people can experience the mods as they were intended).


    Forestry's method in many ways is a very good, as it encourages using Forestry's only mechanics to make it better for EU -> RF, and RF -> EU is a long drawn out process to make you work for being lazy in an attempt to avoid making it too cheap. Immersive Engineering is a good example the otherway, where it just automagically converted with it's wires at 1 EU = 4 RF, causing everyone to use them instead of IC2 and now it's been fully removed from IE because Blu wasn't happy what had happened. Overall whilst IC2 doesn't have anything itself, the fact there are mods that can do it mean it is up to people what they want. It's not like you're missing out from making both sets of power generation anyway.

    145 Mods isn't too many. 9 types of copper and 8 types of tin aren't too many. 3 types of coffee though?

    I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realise that what you read was not what I meant.


    ---- Minecraft Crash Report ----
    // I just don't know what went wrong :(


    I see this too much.

  • Thanks for the reply. I've never had it explained in quite that way before, and to be honest, it makes a lot more sense to me now.


    I'd still like to have some sort of EU->RF block (I could frankly care less about RF->EU since that's very much a gamebreaker, as you've pointed out) for the sole reason that I find the Electric Engine kind of... awkward. Maybe the idea of it being an 'engine', an active device (it's an animated block, at least) as opposed to a passive transformer, weirds me out in some way I haven't determined - and also it breaks up my nice clean IC2 aesthetic. But I can definitely see the rationale in not including it.


    If I ever get around to learning Java, it might actually be a fun (ha) project - a single-block mod to get experience dealing with energy I/O.