Tin-saving suggestion (mainly for purpose of making bio fuel a viable choice)

1st Official Post

    Note: I assume that the suggestions forum section can also be used to suggest addons, right? If this isn't the appropriate place for that, then can some moderator please move the thread instead of deleting it?
    So, I've decided to revive an archived suggestion... specifically this one:


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    Suggestion: re-using empty cells



    Now, before anyone points out that it has already been denied in the past, specifically by Alblaka-

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    Cells were coded to be cheap one-use containers, for the sake of simple, stackable coding. No further discussion.


    I already know that... but that only means no further discussion for "vanilla IC2", yes? So, I suggest an addon that simply causes empty cells to be dumped/created in a chest (if there is one) that is adjacent to the machine that is "using up the cells." So, for example, if you put a chest next to a canning machine that is filling fuel cans from fuel cells, than the chest will have one empty cell added to it for each fuel cell used to fill the fuel can. This way, coal and bio-fuel energy uses fuel, NOT tin, to create EUs. In fact, the real annoying thing about cells being used up in the process of creating fuel, is that it is an additional, unneeded nerf to biofuel as opposed to coal.


    If you do the math it comes out that one bar of tin must be used up per about 11,000 EUs of energy created from biofuel! And since I know no one else wants to do the math that I already did, here it is:


    This means that now biofuel, which already gives you only 1/4 the output per effort to make fuel cans of coal, but now it also uses up a significant amount of tin just to produce any EUs?!? I completely agree with how weak the energy per resources used must be for balancing purposes:


    -coal is non-renewable and used for many valuable things, so it makes lots of energy when turned to fuel, epecially if you adulterate it


    -biofuel takes lots of effort (or use of forestry mod) for the amount of EUs it generates, but uses renewable resources, thus kind of like the water mill, because it is a renewable, but effort requiring energy source


    However, the use of cells means that for any energy needs whatsoever, using biofuel is somewhat tin-intensive and thus NOT renewable resource friendly! That completely takes away the point of biofuel. So, if anyone is willing to make an addon that just puts empty cells into chests after machine operations that use up cells (or even just from canning operations to fill fuel cans), I for one, would be very grateful.


    Note: I'm assuming here that this addon would be relatively easy to code.


    If you don't read the whole post, then please don't make comments, particularly ones like this:


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    Nope, already denied noob.

    Or posts like this:


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    Come on, it barely uses up any tin to do anything that requires cells. 8 tin ore creates a whole stack!

    Like I said in the whole post, when attempting to use biofuel (not with forestry), tin usage DOES become a significant nuisance, and I'm suggesting an addon, so "denied" comments are pointless.

    GENERATION 27: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the
    generation. Social experiment.

    1 word: Superfuel


    Another thing, coal fuel and bio fuel produces a good amount of energy precisely because you need tin to make em in the first place.


    Also too many beneficts, me not likey must crush stupid (Addon)suggestion but im lazy to do it so meh. Maybe one of my brainwashed followers will do it in my place.

    Quote from SpwnX

    I like this idea, will make Fire-and-forget generators slighly less worth making.
    Btw, i always tought that generators that need some kind of fuel should be buffed.


    Gerators that need fuel should be buffed?


    Sure if you use only IC then you're propably right. Since anything that requires your attention all the time just simply isn't fun to use so wind/solar/water are simply better than coal/geo/nuclear.
    But if you use any other mods alongside with IC that allows automation then balance turns upside down.






    Personally I use only normal generators and geothermal early game and automate those as soon as I can. And when I can afford it and have enough uranium turn to nuclear power.
    I'd like to use early also windfarms just because they look cool and are fun to build but since I don't want to bother with them breaking constantly I just don't play with them.


    Windfarm:
    32 generators, 50 LVTs, 2MFE (for internal storage and to make sure 0 energy is wasted during high winds and storms), 216 copper cable and 12 gold cable
    100% maximum effiency and 0% losses
    128EU/t lossless cable with lenght of 200 costs around 250 copper and 12,5 gold (50LVTs, 100 copper cables, 50 gold cables).
    Breaks all the time.


    Average output: 120,96EU/t




    Coalplant:
    48 generators, 8 LVTs, 1 MVT, 50 copper cable, 8 gold cable
    100% maximum effiency and 0% losses


    Average output: 480EU/t, burns 2,4 pieces of coal per second


    Geothermal would be even easier. And feeding lava is propably easier for most than building a good treefarm / superfuel production line.


    Windfarm would actually be feasible early before you can start building bigger geothermal / coal plants, but since it breaks constantly and you would have to bring it's efficiency to 1/3 to get around that annoyance it just isn't worth it anymore.



    TL;DR Fuel using generators are vastly superior to wind/solar/water already.

    main problem are solars, they better then biofuel, just 10 solars obsolete entire biofuel cycle.


    for gunpowder - on most servers mobfarms are not allowed, on bukkit grinded mobs drop nothing, gunpowder is SSP option only.

    • Official Post
    Quote from RawCode

    main problem are solars, they better then biofuel, just 10 solars obsolete entire biofuel cycle.


    for gunpowder - on most servers mobfarms are not allowed, on bukkit grinded mobs drop nothing, gunpowder is SSP option only.

    What stupid Server are you on? Mobfarms are not allowed? Make an XP-Farm out of it and they drop something.

    • Official Post


    Really, Coalplant surely generates a good amount of energy, but producing 2,4 coal per second would need a BIG autofarm.
    And wind power if used efficiently generate much more than solar,water and works all time. [Check my Wind engineering at lag-free tutorial]

    • Official Post
    Quote from SpwnX

    [...]
    Really, Coalplant surely generates a good amount of energy, but producing 2,4 coal per second would need a BIG autofarm.
    And wind power if used efficiently generate much more than solar,water and works all time. [Check my Wind engineering at lag-free tutorial]

    He means my Tutorial about efficient and lagfree Engineering, which is linked in my Signature.

    Quote from Nanomanz

    This is IC2, everything that can be UUMed is renewable


    This is also minecraft, Walks a few chunks away and you can find new sources of it. And no, the world can get Pretty Fucking Big, enough that is more likely you start a new world instead of exploring every single corner of that world.

    Quote from Nanomanz

    This is IC2, everything that can be UUMed is renewable

    I doubt you get much energy like that. Also kinda costly it would have like no advantages over solar, wind and water generators.


    The reason nobody uses biofuel or superfuel is because its not worth it. Thats not because solar, wind and water is OP but because normal generators are UP.

    Quote from Rick

    I doubt you get much energy like that. Also kinda costly it would have like no advantages over solar, wind and water generators.


    The reason nobody uses biofuel or superfuel is because its not worth it. Thats not because solar, wind and water is OP but because normal generators are UP.


    If normal generators are UP, green gens must be OP by default >.>

    Quote from SpwnX


    Really, Coalplant surely generates a good amount of energy, but producing 2,4 coal per second would need a BIG autofarm.
    And wind power if used efficiently generate much more than solar,water and works all time. [Check my Wind engineering at lag-free tutorial]


    If you're not using bonemeal, single generator needs around 15 trees to supply it constantly. -> 48 generators needs 720 trees which is only area of 27x27 blocks. And on top of that rather easy, fast and cheap to build ;)


    Definately faster and cheaper than any windfarm :)
    Btw automated watermills produce 4EU/t, which in my opinion is completely broken and redicculous mechanic.

    Personally I just use solar for energy for just this reason - why use tin on fuel? I would think an easy idea is that on canning machines each time it uses a tin can it produces a tin scrap in a new slot, craft some together (4)? into a tin scrap pile, smelt it back into a tin bar.

    Or that would be cool if fuel can be created as a liquid (as in BC)--> Produce EU from biofuel wouldn't cost Tin.


    Soon with Molten Salt Reactors, right ? :D
    NERF THA FUSION REACTOR!

    Quote from MatLaPatate

    Or that would be cool if fuel can be created as a liquid (as in BC)--> Produce EU from biofuel wouldn't cost Tin.


    IC2 doesn't have its OWN (Keyword) Liquid pipes. As long as that fact stays true, i doubt the IC2 team will make that change. (ZERO Dependencies with other mods and all those shenanigans)

    • Official Post
    Quote from FenixR

    IC2 doesn't have its OWN (Keyword) Liquid pipes. As long as that fact stays true, i doubt the IC2 team will make that change. (ZERO Dependencies with other mods and all those shenanigans)

    Unless it has internal tank and any adjacent generators burn it for energy. No pipes okay?