[Addon Idea] Zeream's Advanced Science Addon for IC2

Zeream's Advanced Science Addon for IC2

Alright, here is the story behind this. No, its not at all like the industrial gasses mod that got canceled (alright, yeah, it kinda is, but I don't care since this is going to be MY addon), since this is more about buildcraft liquids and SCIENCE! The inspiration behind this mod comes from a few things:

First, what kind of industrial facility, mad scientist, or anything these days is complete without liquid nitrogen? Its literally the liquid of SCIENCE and PROGRESS! Second, with the new reactor components on the way and probably much heavier reactors requiring much higher cooling values with higher EU output and risk, this allows one to maintain very dangerous reactors in a slightly more realistic way. Plus its buildcraft compatible, and who doesn't like more buildcraft liquids? Third, I felt that water as a coolant in creations was nice, but with numerous tiers of fuel and a single tier of coolant made it pretty stale in some respects and limited creativity.

Now I don't believe in free energy as much as the next guy, but there really wasn't a way to gather nitrogen in any real way besides the air. I don't feel like implementing some type of new ore, and getting nitrogen in mass quantities from dirt is just retarded (because everything that uses dirt in a recipe is retarded, including the terraformer, which is an utterly pointless machine). So, the only option left was to get it from the air. That's how we get it anyway, but not without cost. High voltage requirements for high grade coolant is what I have in mind here, coupled with an mid / endgame recipe for the machine that creates it.

I also feel like adding some other sciency additions to this mod, like dedicated laser mining rigs and fusion reactors. And yes, I realize that the majority of the stuff here is not really useful, but its still fun!

So yeah, this mod is still completely in the planning stage. I'm completely new to minecraft modding, but I have 2 years of javacode under my belt so it won't take long for me to pick up. (plus with all those programs that make addon and mod making easier). While I learn the kinks to that, I thought I'd brainstorm with the rest of the community to see what everyone likes (and hopes that the almighty Alblaka implements this if it actually garners some success). Don't be afraid to tell me if any of this is already planned in vanilla IC2. Also, new ideas for this are welcome (as long as it uses liquid nitrogen). REMEMBER: NOTHING IS FINALIZED!

I need help with this mod!
I need someone to help make block textures since I'm terrible with pixel art, and someone else to make sounds for the new machines!

As a notice ahead of time, I'm sorry if this is chock-full of grammatical errors and stuff. I typed this all at like 4 AM while sick with the flu. Keep with me here.

Liquid Nitrogen:

Helium and Hydrogen:

Chemical Vats:

Refrigeration unit (better name pending):

(further stuff on next page)

Fusion Reactor (lets face it, WE ALL WANT ONE IN OUR BASEMENT)

The mystical superconductor wire

Heavy-duty industrial mining laser rig, fresh from HAYO Sciences!

Fire Extinguishers

BONUS: BALLOONS! (if people are really nice to me and help me with this instead of letting the thread fester):

Quote from kevindude

Sounds pretty HAYOish, I like yr ideas!

About the super conductor recipe, maybe the recipe could be like an up grade to glass fiber, like this:
g=glass fiber o=gold c= clay
ccc
gog
ccc
Makes 2
For max eff. insulate with rubber 4x

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Haha, thanks. I don't expect many people to get into this because I have several walls of text up there. All the input helps.

Yeah, I was thinking glass fiber cable, but superconductors don't really work like that (now granted, fiber optic doesn't transfer electricity either, but whatevs). The reason I suggested clay (or some forged equivalent of it) is because the superconductors of today, the ones that only work at cryogenic temperatures, are actually ceramics instead of metals.

I like the use of gold though! I also got my math wrong on how much rubber it would need, thanks for that.

So really, I was thinking of something more along the lines of clay + 4 copper dust + 4 gold dust = some special ceramic we'll make up a name for, which is then forged and then used to craft the interior of the cable. The exterior of the cable can be some sort of coolant plate from a reactor or cells so it accepts liquid. Like so:

Superconducting clay (c = copper dust, g = gold dust, k = clay):

c g c
g k g
c g c

Any forge: superconducting clay -> superconducting ceramic

Possible (but expensive) cable idea (s = superconducting ceramic, a = adv alloy, c = cell):

a c a
s s s = 4 cable. Add 4 rubber to it and you are good to go.
a c a

Unjacketed, if you are within 16 blocks of it, it kills you instantly
without armor. (as in, 1 heart of damage per tick, or 20 hearts every
second).

Each cable would have its own GUI with like a 2 buckets of storage. For every 100 or so ticks it consumes one bucket. How the melting thing would work is that while it has buckets, its the 4096 EU/t cable, while not, its an insulator at 5 EU/t (instantly melting the cable).

What do you think about that?

Quote from rr10nov

A few notes:

1. I guess it makes sense that this should be a coolant for Buildcraft engines, but I don't see it as a useful mechanic at all. Water is about the easiest resource to obtain, and with a dedicated pump (or, even simpler, the Aqueous Accumulator from Thermal Expansion) there really is zero need to make this a coolant for engines. If it produced an efficiency boost or something, that would be different, but I see few plausible ways this can be implemented without it being a redundant feature.

2. There are already Buildcraft and Industrialcraft addons that touch on the subject of fusion. This is a crowded field which is already kind of redundant given that an efficient nuclear reactor already produces endgame level power.

3. While MOAR LAZORS is always a sound policy, there are already BC Quarries, RP Frame+BlockBreaker combos, CC turtles, Railcraft Tunnel Bores and IC Miners which automate the mining process. I don't think that calling other autominers "inefficient" is the best way to justify why your suggestion is better (I will repeat that I am already well aware of the awesomeness of having lasers do everything)

4. Fire extinguishers? How often do you have random blazes that can't just be punched out?

5. If your mod is already compatible with BC pipes, then why implement a chemical vat? Just use tanks.

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Yeah, I know. Like I said, its really sort of pointless, but I thought it was a fun idea for those who want to try it. Fires can already be simply punched out, so it turns the extinguisher into more of a fun thing and a snow machine.

Liquid nitrogen is also used to exclusively work with some things to reach their full potential. For example, at full power the laser rig works like the handheld mining laser and mines entire tunnels within seconds. Keep in mind, full power is 2048 EU per tick with gold pipe supplying liquid nitrogen to cool it. At the lowest, its more like a quarry with a combustion engine or two, running with 128 EU per tick. Plus, EVERYONE has their own miners in their mods, each with their own advantages and disadvantages. I merely just pointed out that the railcraft tunnel bores are crazy inefficient because it takes a long ass time to make such a small corridor with such expensive fuel, and almost every other mod out there does it more efficiently (better is arguable, you're right). I pointed out RP frames since those are crazy expensive (well, this will be too), and to me they just look UGLY. For some that's cool. Oh, and like you said, WE ALL LOVE LAZ0RZ! But, in honesty, if you combined this with RP frames, then you could have a badass moving laser platform, or even make orbital laser bombardment platforms in the skies!

To give you a comparison between the quarry and the laser rig: the quarry can do any size of shaft, while the laser rig can only do at most a 7x7 tunnel in front of it. The quarry collects the materials, the laser rig really just blows them out of the way since it can't collect them after it mines them. The quarry only digs down, the laser rig can mine in any direction. The quarry works at a steady pace, while the laser rig can work very, VERY fast, and has crazy long ranges (I'm thinking of making the beam to the loaded chunk boundry so you don't have to move it). It takes a pretty high amount of energy to make a quarry run at full power, while a low power laser rig can remove at the same speed of said high power quarry. And the best part: quarries cant vaporize mobs, but LASER RIGS CAN! So, the general idea behind the rig is that by the time you get it and can run it at high power, you're bored and rich and don't need every single block you mine from automatic mining anymore.

I love the efficiency boost idea! Most engines, machinery, and moving parts work better at cooler temperatures where wear and tear and friction are reduced, so introduction of cryogenic coolant should cause an efficiency boost. Suddenly this mod has potential!

Really? Fusion threads? I didn't see any of them on here. Well, since its talked about so much, I felt I'd do my own thing. Whether I do it BETTER than others is up to my effort, the final product, and the users themselves. I have in mind less of free energy and just another breeder reactor that might make miniature suns where your house used to be. Plus, this all just stemmed from its potential ravenous need for coolant to work in the first place. Same thing as the fire extinguisher. Its just there for fun.

The hardest part about this is working out the kinks of this mod so there is some incentive to use it over others. Like you said, water is abundant, but I find its a real pain make the pipes to the source, pump the water, and THEN cool things. Its even worse when you want to have really fast pumping, in which case you need steam engines (which require annoying occasional maintenance) and combustion engines (which require an even MORE annoying new network of pipes to get both coolant and fuel). See where I'm getting the want for this more efficient and alternative way to obtain coolant? I mean, if you already have infinite water generators like the Aqueous Accumulator (I don't have that mod, so probably why I'm making this), then you wouldn't need or want this, right?

At the end of the day though, its all user preference.

The chemical vat is supposed to be carry-able, tanks are not carry-able with the liquids (last I checked, anyway). Vat isn't place-able in the world (since its essentially the same as a bucket), and tanks are.

I may make the laser platform have a 2nd tier laser in its GUI as well, one that the player can't actually use but boosts efficiency somehow. Just an idea I came up with.

Quote from theshadedone

With regard to the supercoductors, I just thought I would suggest a slightly different method of keeping them cool.
Maybe you could have a block that pumps the coolant into it?
If you have the coding ability, you could possibly even have the cables resemble redpower liquid tubes or buildcraft waterproof pipes.
If you did that, you could use a recipe like this:
c a c
c a c
c a c
Where a is anything you want, for balance reasons, and c stands for cell.
The coolant block could act a bit like the accelerators from redpower.
Just an idea.
you could possibly even use the coolant block as a part of the recipes for the lasers, or as a required block to keep them cool.
you could also use them to cool down nuclear reactors?

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I don't really get what you mean. Do you mean have the buildcraft pipes connect directly to the superconductors to supply coolant and thus the GUI in each cable? Or do you mean each cable has a separate cooling unit next to it which is supplied with the buildcraft pipes? Or, do you mean that the cooling unit merely has to connect to one part of a string of superconductors and it cools the entire chain?

The first one is what I plan on doing, the second one is sort of redundant since everything could be taken care of in the cable, and the third idea is quite interesting indeed, but a little OP in my opinion (since these are ridiculous cables after all).

The reason I worded it in a way where you actively put the coolant is for those who don't want to use buildcraft with this addon (which, I may just give up on because you'd be stupid not to use it with this addon). So, I'm just confused as to who is confused here, you or me.

Though, efficiency boosting is not really what I have in mind here (at least in regards to the cables). The point is that if you aren't cooling your cables and they have electricity flowing through them, they fry.

Custom coolant block with higher cooling values, huh? Well, its a great idea. On the other hand, the 1.3.2 update of IC2 is probably going to contain triple efficiency coolant blocks (reactor system is getting revamped), so we could just use that. Or just use the integrated heat dispensers.

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The person who suggested a fusion reactor for IndustrialCraft the very first time (it was me, it was the 8th suggestion, it was before fission reactors were implemented) approves of this!

Wow I'm talking to a real vet here. This thread is getting some attention, that's good! More attention, higher chance of it getting implemented sooner.

Quote

The very first person to suggest balloons for IndustrialCraft (again, me, it was part of said fusion suggestion) approves of this and suggests using helium in that recipe.

Ah crap, I forgot to add in the part about using the empty balloons on a canning machine with a helium cell to yield the balloon that you can actually place in minecraftia. Thanks for pointing that out!

Quote

I vote for the sun, not the explosion.

Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines. Thing is though, this entire addon is really just many different addons thrown together, all that revolve around liquid nitrogen. Its going to be a lot of work, so some things may or may not be cut out.

Quote

There are quite some people who don't use buildcraft at all, so you might want to think of a buildcraft-free way to deliver liquid nitrogen without so much trouble. Maybe if you place a Zeream-Cryogenic Atmospheric Refrigerator right next to a coolant-using block it doesn't need cells and just ignores the hydrogen and helium in the atmosphere while pumping liquid nitrogen into the block?

You see, I guess I could do that, but the whole point of the addon revolves around liquid nitrogen, a new buildcraft liquid. I mean this won't stop me from trying, but all versions will be made in mind with buildcraft compatibility first.

Quote

Live long and prosper!

Yeah, thanks! While you're here, and since you're a vet on fusion reactors it seems, can you give some more input in regards to the fusion reactor? I'm still stumped on the reciepe.

Quote

Quoted from "I don't now"

I could probably help you with some of the textures. I made a texturepack, an IC² texture pack , the some textures for For The Trees , the textures for IdnCrops and the textures for some of one of my friend's mods (most of them are not released)(I didn't make the sprites for the mobs however, I'm terrible at spriting anything that complex).

That would be nice man. Do you have time to start drawing up ideas now? We really aren't in any hurry though, because this will probably get implemented at least after 1.3.2 IC2 update.

Quote from Industrial Miner

Definitly like this idea. Maybe I can scrap my plan to build 25 nuclear reactors with each outputting 2000 EU/t just in my basement.

In what way? I mean, you could make fewer ones since you could cool heavier reactors faster, but the fusion reactor is NOT meant to generate large amounts of power. Maybe medium voltage at most.

Quote from wasmic

I like ALMOST all of this, but the fusion reactor shoul melt everything within ~5-10 blocks into lava instead of exploding. Also the way you suggest the fusion reactor is by no means realistic, but it might be quite fun anyway.

Nah. The vanilla reactor already does that and thats not nearly as spectacular and risky. Well of course its not realistic. Reality in my minecraft? Yeah, rich. Fun is the key here. Honestly though, the crafting process for a fusion reactor will stay somewhat close to reality and differ enough from the nuclear reactor to distinguish them.

Quote from engineer404

Helium? Refridgeration? THINGS TO COLLECT AIR? Now, if you liquidize oxygen, it makes potent rocket fuel. And thee Hydrogen also does (maybe? not a rocket scientist). So... maybe talk to crazycrafter?

Yeah I thought of that, but I have absolutely no use for it at this point. I mean, we could use it as a buildcraft fuel that burns at efficiency of oil. If you are suggesting rockets though, I am not making an entire rocket science mod myself. We have enough of those already.

Quote from OmegaPaladin

The fusion reactor is kind of ridiculous. More risk and less reward? You have to rely on a random chance of getting a fuel cell? Real fusion reactors would be like the Rocket Science ones (very sad to see that mod fall behind) and mad science fusion reactors should give boatloads of power at the risk of turning the surroundings into a rapidly expanding plasma cloud.

It's not that I dislike the idea of making liquid nitrogen and all, but the fusion reactor just seems to be missing a niche in the power section.

Well, yeah, it is. Its not made to compete with the nuclear reactor, its made to accommodate it. We COULD make realistic fusion reactors that are much safer than nuclear reactors, but also keep in mind to this date in real life we have yet to make a viable fusion reactor. That is why I plan to make this one so inefficient. Plus, this is minecraftia, so I wanted to make the fusion reactor as unrealistic as possible.

Furthermore, if you look deeper at what this addon is doing, you realize that with the refrigeration unit and fusion reactor you are essentially using EU to produce more EU. We all know that is free energy, and not a lot of us like that. I want to eliminate the chance of getting it easily. The fusion reactor is ultimately just something you can have sitting on the side, an investment so to speak (like it is nowadays). If it turns out something like nuclear reactor fuel, you just turned a 12800 EU process (refrigeration unit) into 10000 EU (burning hydrogen fuelcell) + 2500 EU (burning helium fuelcell) into 1 million EU. 1E6 - 12800 + 10000 + 2500 = 999700 EU gained from a gamble at 0.01% chance (5% * 20% * 1%). With water cells you gamble improves to 0.02%. Seems a little unfair, but helium fuelcells can be produced by refining helium cells with 4 hydrogen fuelcells (just came up with that, crafted at a crafting table), and then you still have 0.1% chance (10% * 1%) to get the 1 million EU fuel at the expense of 64000 EU (12800 * 5). You get more helium cells that way than by normal fusion processes, but it costs more EU in the long run. If you take in the expense of hydrogen fuelcells though, its much more expensive. Thus, using straight helium fuelcells is discouraged.

If that still doesn't satisfy you, think about it like this. Taking out the chance of nuclear fuel, the fusion reactor is giving back EU lost from the refrigeration unit, since each hydrogen cell gives 10k EU and each helium cell gives 2500 EU, which almost matches the 12800 EU used to produce a single unit of helium, hydrogen, or liquid nitrogen. Of course, the chance of getting back all that energy is 1% (5% * 20%), 2% with water cells. Getting back the hydrogen cell's worth, 10k EU, is 5% (10% with water cells).

I will definitely add in different reactor parts that increase the chance of getting nuclear fuel at the expense of greater heat generation or reduced EU yield. As one would imagine, such parts would be quite expensive. Ultimately, a maxed out fusion breeder reactor and refrigeration unit could produce around low to medium voltage and churn out nuclear fuel at 10% (20% with water cells). Such a reactor would be incredibly difficult to maintain, but what fun is the reward without the risk? Thus, this thing DOES churn out crazy amounts of EU.

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I do have time for doing that. However, next week school starts again, so I hope to be able to finish most work this week. Also, by drawing up ideas, do you mean making sprites or having ideas? English is not my native language, so I'm not entirely sure.

Both, really. Draw up sprites and pixel-art of the items already proposed. Might as well start now while we have free time.