1.3.2 Nuclear power changes?

  • Okay, now first off I'd like to clarify something first before getting started:


    I had absolutely no damn clue on how to use nuclear power in 1.2.5. There was just way too many things to try and keep in mind for building one, and in the end I found it much easier to use the compact solar panels addon coupled with geothermal generators. Plus, they would output more than enough energy to feed a mass fabricator at maximum input (to the point where I wound up overloading it a couple of times and making a few craters by mistake... D'oh!)


    So... With that out of the way...


    Would it be possible for someone to describe in two ways on how nuclear engineering will now work?


    The first way is for those who are familiar with nuclear engineering as is, from 1.2.5 to 1.3.2 and what all has changed that they will keep in mind.


    The second method is for complete newbs to the nucular sphientffic stuphs (I couldn't help myself...) such as myself who never understood it, even when reading all the guides about it. Perhaps the guide can be updated to reflect the new methods used and deprecating the old?

  • IC2 for 1.32 isnt out yet so nobody except the devs and the beta testers know what will come.


    we could still do some science here, speculative science!

  • What is known for certain so far....


    Nuclear power is getting MORE complicated. Now there are only four possible parts, afterwards there appear to be at least three times that.


    It seems that the trend is towards giving higher power output for regular reactors. CASUCs will be either very different or not possible.


    Generally speaking, this appears to be a buff for nuclear. Nuclear appears to have three tiers of awesomeness, as you progress towards more expensive components.


    Existing reactors may explode - take the uranium out of them before upgrading !

  • that's pretty much what i also guessed, since the gap between CASUC's and normal reactors is so big the normal ones seem like a total waste of uranium

  • Don't we already have a speculation thread? At this point if you want to try your hand at deciphering this terrible hand writing that goes along with this image, go right ahead. But as of right now, only the devs and most likely the beta testers have any overall picture of the nuclear changes, as opposed to our basic understanding of only a few things.

    Is the answer to this question no?


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    Hey don't take it so hard. Ignorance is part of this generation it seems. -the wise words of XFmax-o-l

  • My server won't be upgrading MC versions specifically because of the new IC2 nuclear power changes. It seems like the response to renewable energy being overpowered (zero maintenance, huge return) is always to buff the hell out of nuclear. But meanwhile coal, biofuel, lava, etc. get more and more useless especially in consideration of how labor intensive they are. Meanwhile nuclear goes from being complicated to more complicated, and in an unnecessary single-line code change, every reactor MK3 or above is set to self destruct, with no support for backwards compatibility. That last part is so unnecessary. Don't get me wrong, I love this mod, and I'm grateful to the developers, but for feedback purposes I'm just throwing it out there: I quit the day it was announced that redstone behavior for nuclear reactors changed for no reason.


    I had just spent 40 hours engineering and building a number of redstone systems to allow safe operation of a series of otherwise highly unstable Mark 5 reactors. In order for the reactors to come online, three conditions have to each be met, and each condition has a separate line of redstone current to disable one of three torches that's safely positioned behind multiple layers of reinforced stone and glass, which if all else fails, would light up to keep the reactor safely disabled by default. The operator has to enter an appropriate combination into a redstone combination lock in order to disable the first torch. He has to stand on a pressure plate (so if he dies or walks away, reactors will shutdown safely) to disable the second torch. And the operator can run the reactors for increments of at most 10 seconds at a time, by using a button to trigger a redstone timer, to disable the third torch. All three systems tie into all four reactors, and the output is substantial on a server that's been balanced by the removal of renewable power and the halving of nuclear power output, to its original level of 5 EU/t per uranium. Even if I had the energy and will to re-engineer and re-build everything, conceptually it can never possibly work the same, because there will always be a single point of failure in the new system - since all it takes is a single redstone wire being lit to keep the reactor going.


    I guess the reason I'm posting about this at all is because I want someone to recognize how exasperating it all is. Spending tons of time on a design that's elegant, and inspired by the kinds of redundant systems that would be used for a real nuclear plant, and having it all get messed up by a single line of code that someone took 5 seconds to change, because they just felt like it. I used to think it was just Notch and Jeb who did this to their players, but now I think it's everyone. Sorry if this seemed like a rant. Respond to it if you want, but I won't be back to read any of it.

  • 1. Don't Necropost if all you have is an opinion to add to a topic about features that will not be reverted...


    2.

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    It seems like the response to renewable energy being overpowered (zero maintenance, huge return) is always to buff the hell out of nuclear.

    You mean that illogical flame war that resulted from someone thinking too much in game terms and not enough in engineering terms? Yeah, if you base your logic around that kind of thinking, I'm pretty sure you'll have a hell of a time wrapping around the fact of why said argument is pointless (Spoiler alert: Realism)


    3.

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    -redstone wire rant-

    While I understand your frustration, it's not like the Dev.s can predict everyone's hardwork and be forced to plan around 'old worlds'. Hell, I always start a new world on each and every MC change just because of this...


    4.

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    I guess the reason I'm posting about this at all is because I want someone to recognize how exasperating it all is.

    Oh yes, it is. But it's also exasperating at the amount of whining the devs put up with when they wish to change the mod to correct exploits and abuses (Yes, CASUC's were exploits off infinite water. Same as Manned Water Mills. You can't honestly argue otherwise) when other mods destroy game balance and shift players into cookie cutter styles of play. Honestly, how do you make other power sources attractive when the popular go-to power gives a MINIMUM of 1000 Eu/t?


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    My server won't be upgrading MC versions specifically because of the new IC2 nuclear power changes.


    Foolish move tbh... Even though the devs won't change the nuclear setup, I'm sure add-ons will probably find alternatives similar to your liking. Moaning and complaining about change is a good way to miss out on many other new features that can come, and possibly change the game in new ways to your liking...

    Would anyone like to try a Slowpoke Tail?! Only 1 Million Yen!


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    this isn't about arrogance or ego, I have a block that I put a lot of freaking work into


    Every Mod Author, in existence. And yet, you STILL say otherwise.

  • Magus, thank you for acknowledging that it's such an exasperating situation.


    I had an idea a few moments ago. How about I donate $10 to the IC2 team, and in exchange, someone adds an option to nuclear reactors to make their redstone behavior configurable, similar to a batbox or an MFS?

  • look Androsynth


    i read ur post and understand what your arguments are, but with all things. even real life. change is always an possibility. nuclear power for example is an very efficient way to generate lots and lots of power, both in real life as in Industrial craft.


    And the redstone part, well. it is dificult to design fail proof and noob proof systems to prevent an mk5 to overload and crater the server. but it is stil posible to design an system which will do just the same. true, it takes time and effort. but again, isn't that the fun of the game? try something.. doesn't work. try again!


    I once designed an perfectly running ice CASUC beast with an gigantic system of pumps miners etc, effectively only pumping at 450 eu.tick (of 2000 total)
    this was all done with complicated red power systems etc. in my opinion, it is good for some change. every single mc version i went to CASUC reactors for power. and then i was finished. end game completed.


    With the new line of coding making an good functioning reactor is more difficult true. but rewarding on the other side.


    and yea, i can see how nuclear is OP. but try to use the mod pack of GregoriusT, it re shapes the IC2 in many ways. including solars macerators nuclears and some pretty neat end game power generators. which require up to 40 mil EU to START generating power. (fusion reactors)


    wel... i can posibly write here til i am out of 10k characters about all of this. il just wrap up with this.
    if something change's, you should change with it. take the challenge to make it work for you! thats the point of playing.


    i suggest, download the new IC2 and GregoriusT his mod pack. it changed ur MC as you know it,


    hope i helped you an bit here ;)

    right, time to get serious...
    i wil be offline for weeks and possibly months at an time. if you have anything to add to an post i made, and would like me to know. you are welcome to pm me, and i wil reply as soon as i am able to do so.

  • I guess my friends and I just play this game differently than most people. We're trying to build a living, breathing community and invest in public works projects that will endure for the long term. The mods have been balanced so that there is no "end game" for us. We've built a massive rail network with switching stations, and a mail system based off buildcraft pipes with a serialized communication system for dialing addresses, a high energy corridor for power sharing, huge artistic works, and so on. There's only a handful of us and we just don't have the time to go back and re-do major projects any time there's a minor change to something fundamental. Mojang and the IC2 guys are building a canvas upon which to create remarkable works, but it's like they periodically change the cloth in a way that we lose a whole color. I don't really get it.


    I don't mind the nuclear update overall, since the internal mechanics of the reactor don't really affect anything. Sure, it renders certain design elements (falling water, ice pumps) unnecessary, but what really gets me is that the fundamental means of control was totally reversed without any option to keep it the same. If I'd built my reactor control system on a different server, the operator would've probably updated, started the server, and two minutes later I'd be living in a massive crater because my four Mark 5 reactors would all have turned on. What can the justification possibly be for doing that to people?


    I still want someone to accept my deal, I make a $10 donation and they make reactor redstone input a configurable choice going forward. It's worth it to me to continue playing this game without feeling like an idiot for wasting 40 hours of my life on a design that was rendered obsolete the very same week.

  • then go put it in the suggestion forum man ;) they are always willing to listen to an good argument in an suggestion

    right, time to get serious...
    i wil be offline for weeks and possibly months at an time. if you have anything to add to an post i made, and would like me to know. you are welcome to pm me, and i wil reply as soon as i am able to do so.

  • Reactors don't make craters. They just remove inner layer of Reinforced Stone blast wall.

    Or rather, reactors never explode if you know what you are doing. I used to have over 20 CASUCs and about 30 normal reactors in all of my different bases in my 1.2.5 world and not a single one exploded. That's the sole reason why I don't even use any reinforcing, just a layer or two of construction foam to make sure that it doesn't destroy absolutely everything.

  • I guess my friends and I just play this game differently than most people. We're trying to build a living, breathing community and invest in public works projects that will endure for the long term. The mods have been balanced so that there is no "end game" for us. We've built a massive rail network with switching stations, and a mail system based off buildcraft pipes with a serialized communication system for dialing addresses, a high energy corridor for power sharing, huge artistic works, and so on. There's only a handful of us and we just don't have the time to go back and re-do major projects any time there's a minor change to something fundamental. Mojang and the IC2 guys are building a canvas upon which to create remarkable works, but it's like they periodically change the cloth in a way that we lose a whole color. I don't really get it.


    I don't mind the nuclear update overall, since the internal mechanics of the reactor don't really affect anything. Sure, it renders certain design elements (falling water, ice pumps) unnecessary, but what really gets me is that the fundamental means of control was totally reversed without any option to keep it the same. If I'd built my reactor control system on a different server, the operator would've probably updated, started the server, and two minutes later I'd be living in a massive crater because my four Mark 5 reactors would all have turned on. What can the justification possibly be for doing that to people?

    Because a Mk I reactor now outputs more Eu/Tic than an oldschool Mk V reactor. Really, you should look at it. Resources mostly switched to Copper for most of the Nuclear components, which means it actually takes less valuable resources to build up a Mk I reactor that generates 420 Eu/tic. The only resource which is scarce that you need to put in it is the Uranium itself.


    The new reactor components are overall an upgrade. CASUC needed to die in a fire anyways, this just gives you the ability for about the same Eu output, but actually expending resources (like tons of lapis).


    Also, IC2 people tried to let everyone know to turn off their reactors, that the redstone usage was going to flip, and even sent out a config change to default turn off all reactors so that everyone could get their reactors set up properly.


    Heck, even the mods like Nuclear Control flipped their redstone application to match.

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    I still want someone to accept my deal, I make a $10 donation and they make reactor redstone input a configurable choice going forward. It's worth it to me to continue playing this game without feeling like an idiot for wasting 40 hours of my life on a design that was rendered obsolete the very same week.

    Install a NOT gate, done. this is how it works with vanilla, or you can use RP2 to do it. Reactors aren't going to change much going forward.


    You sound like you just got caught in one of the biggest changes Minecraft has gone through. Everything changed with 1.3.2. You just got hit by some of the backlash. Now it is done, and you don't have to worry about it again.


    This happened mostly because of CASUC reactors being basically exploits, and the devs wanted to remove them, and do some tweaking in the process.


    Also, I think you may be playing the wrong game. This game is dynamic. It is constantly changing. Expecting a world to be the same for two years is simply unrealistic, unless you simply don't update the server.

  • I'm torn between accepting that final sentiment, "I'm playing the wrong game," and sticking to the notion that everyone plays Minecraft differently, so how is my style any less right than someone else's? NOT gates won't work because the whole safety system was predicated on having three separate inputs from three separate comm lines tied to three separate control systems. Three inputs to the reactor, post-update, will have the effect of turning the reactor on if any one of the three conditions is met (assuming I use NOT gates), which is not the desired behavior. I'd need the three control systems to all hit an AND gate, and feed the output from that gate to a single point on each reactor. The AND gate is a single point of failure, since a single piece of redstone on it could break, resulting in the output torch lighting, and the whole system would go kaboom. It's far less elegant & notably less safe, and it'd be an ordeal to switch over to that kind of setup. Anyway, you folks have all convinced me to give up the fight. Not that it ever realyl was a fight. I'd already quit really. I'm sorry for wasting everyone's time and energy here.