Godcraft's Open Video to the IndustrialCraft Development Team!

Quote from imer

Public repos on github are free, private ones do cost something, i believe you get/got 5 private repos for 5$ a month (i have 2 unused private repos left, so no problem with using those, in case i'm trustworthy )
The 100$ is for companies (i don't even know the befit of having a company account)

I believe GitHub's public repos requite the code to be released under the GPL license. Which Alblaka may not wish to do. Also GitHub isn't a silver bullet. You still need trusted people to review and monitor the incoming code to make sure it is up to standard and does not do anything bad. The time spent doing this, appointing people to do it and managing those people is far from small.

Making the source public isn't a bad idea. Providing there are clear and strict rules about what you can do with it (I propose we use the same rules we use now, ie we cannot upload modified classes to anywhere but the addons forum, etc). I have seen a piece of Minecraft related code where the author shared the code, and wrote a license next to the download link about what you can and can't do with it (the code was basically for learning only). Needless to say the entire thread was turned into a fight between the author and another person, who took the code and made a ripped off version of the plugin. The other person claimed that as soon as code was released it was open source under the GPL license (which is far from true).

Quote from baturinsky

I heard you can have free private repository for up to 5 people on bitbucket.

Yes, for example Sengir host Forestry sources on bitbucket.org.

Quote from bbqroast

I believe GitHub's public repos requite the code to be released under the GPL license.

No, you can use any license. But yes, it makes stealing a little easier.

Quote from bbqroast

Needless to say the entire thread was turned into a fight between the author and another person, who took the code and made a ripped off version of the plugin. The other person claimed that as soon as code was released it was open source under the GPL license (which is far from true).

Examples like these its why i will never (In the personal level) support Open source nor i would suggest anyone from doing so. Yes i know there is a lot of benefits in going open source, that just because its open source doesn't mean a free for all (Depending on your license and if you choose to enforce it severely if someone violated it even though you do this for free/fun) and that not everyone is like this.

But its the internet after all, where anonymity rules and everyone can get away with a lot more things than what they do IRL (But its the place we all grown and learn to love). Out there is a whole lot of idiots, morons or "Locusts" that devours anything in their path just because its there where everyone can see it. Closed source may not be the most optimal way to do things, but at least it will detriment those with less skill than what they preach to have.

Quote from Two

Just imagine for a second that one of the devs is coming home from work wasted and only wants to spent some quality time with his girlfriend or the TV (whatever is available) and not setup servers, maintain code or a community. I have no doubt that they are capable of doing that, but setting up all that stuff primarily takes time. And that is why I said: if we ask them to do that, it is only fair if we assist them.

Have you ever tried dev'ing wasted? ...it's a hoot, lemme tell ya. only bad thing is that it's sometimes hard to remember exactly how it was that you managed to do something. Sometimes I get wasted because I have dev stuff to do. Aside from that my girlfriend is sitting next to me watching 'West Wing' while I do this. Later I'll be SSHing into my server while she watches something else. I'm just saying- none of those activities have to preclude accomplishing some tasks.

It's not about assisting them. I myself personally and directly offered to help with investigating the Jenkins aspect. It's about trusting they've heard the message and understand that it's about how Al, Richard and Player have to do ALL the development and that silent updates are bad.

Quote from Two

My idea on a brainstorming was not to tell them how to do the entire open-source thing properly, but to give them ideas on what can be done.

And my point is that creating an 'open-source brainstorming' thread may be putting the horse before the cart. We don't know if IC2 is even going open-source, so why are we brainstorming about it?

Quote from baturinsky

But I don't see why having public repository on GitHub can be problem. It's not like anyone can write in it, it is only "public" for reading. It does not even require you to license it under any "free" license.

Because Alblaka may not wish to post the full and complete source of a project that is still active. If IC2 is posted to one of the free Github repos then anyone can download his full-source and use it however they like. Which.... they could kinda do anyway really, but Alblaka may not want to make it easy on them.

Quote from imer

]Public repos on github are free, private ones do cost something, i believe you get/got 5 private repos for 5$ a month. The 100$ is for companies.

He was using my figure of $100/yr. ($7 a month, 12 months a year plus tax. Just a bit under $100 for a non-open-source github.

Quote from Saul_Goode

Have you ever tried dev'ing wasted?

I am beyond that point.

Quote from FenixR

Examples like these its why i will never (In the personal level) support Open source nor i would suggest anyone from doing so. Yes i know there is a lot of benefits in going open source, that just because its open source doesn't mean a free for all (Depending on your license and if you choose to enforce it severely if someone violated it even though you do this for free/fun) and that not everyone is like this.

So you won't suggest others to support open source because someone took a piece of closed source code and used it against it's (non-OSS) license? What?

I find it interesting how so many people seem to think that it's their right to have regular, perfect updates that bring what they want, and how just as many people seem to think they have better ideas than the people who have actually gone out and executed them.

I didn't watch the entire video, I stopped somewhere around 1 and a half minutes in because I disagreed too strongly to listen.

I am afraid that if I do not respond my position will be drowned out by the self-entitled.

I am a server owner and I feel like we need to look at the end game here. The fundamental ideal is to have fun with the game or even have fun with one's friends. At any stage of development, of any mod, or stage of Minecraft vanilla; it will never be complete. It will never be done. There will always be bugs some crippling, some so small they are not perceptible. We, at my server, can handle that. We have fun regardless of the state of our server or mods. No bug is going to take that away from us. I feel sorry that Alba has to deal with this. I want to suggest the following for the IC2 users.

• Have fun with what you have.
• Be patient.
• Hug your mother, father, and whoever else you haven't since you started playing Minecraft.

Supportive of Alba,
-SolisCraft

As for the complains from server owners about bugs, if you can go to the trouble to setup a new server for 1.3.2, you can darn well get a few members to beta test it before it goes live. If the bug is a game killer, then seriously put things on hold for a while.

From what I understand E-net is one of the more complex code blocks in IC2, the decompiler doesn't like it either which limits how many have read the code. It didn't break itself, and when you don't know exactly what in Minecraft/Forge has changed it becomes harder to fix.

At this moment in time, of the 4 great technology mods I use, two work but with the odd bug being found and fixed (IC2 and Railcraft), BC is a bug farm I gave up on after the 5th crash, and Redpower is still unreleased. Point is for those of us writing mods for IC2, we needed a 1.3.2 version to compile against, bug or no bugs.

As for open source and public repos, it just deals with one part of the project, the code. Doesn't help much with managing the project planning, the people, knowledge on how things work. Some times looking at the code will tell you what something does, but not its intent or why it was coded in a certain way.

Quote from Arkenai

I find it interesting how so many people seem to think that it's their right to have regular, perfect updates that bring what they want, and how just as many people seem to think they have better ideas than the people who have actually gone out and executed them.

I find it interesting how resistant people are to suggestions and requests, and how some people hate any idea that didn't come from the devs themselves. When devs listen to comments like this projects die, because it turns out that like everyone else in the world devs aren't perfect and sometimes need constructive criticism.

Also, the ability to have good ideas and the ability to code are not synonymous.

Devs are usually humans. Strangely surprising...

Quote from enneract

Between the huge nerf to reactors ('fun' nerf... computer-controlled CASUCs were fun, the new system is just 'meh'), and the rampant bugs since 103, I haven't been very happy with the direction IC2 is going.

Then again, its a mod, someone else's hobby, free, etc. The two statements aren't mutually exclusive - I can express my opinion without saying that the IC2 dev team has an obligation to cater to it.

Quote from enneract

Between the huge nerf to reactors ('fun' nerf... computer-controlled CASUCs were fun, the new system is just 'meh'), and the rampant bugs since 103, I haven't been very happy with the direction IC2 is going.

Then again, its a mod, someone else's hobby, free, etc. The two statements aren't mutually exclusive - I can express my opinion without saying that the IC2 dev team has an obligation to cater to it.

Nerffing is fun, I sure hope that even IC would be nerfed EVEN MORE! Like Quantum armor shoud use moar power.. And Nano armor should use in comparison even moar.. It is after all just carbon carbon I mean how efficient can it be? Compared to Iridium! ooooh yeaah.. Mining pipes could have a hit point as well. Every other mod EVEN redpower has an "block breaker" that consumes nothing (It could be changing) Magic still! Pipes are cool.. But quarry could suck power like... 2000 instead 20 eu/tic (something that compares to mining laser) I mean it does take some effort to build a working Combustion engine generator in BC... It does waste 50% of the energy to heat exchange.

OMG! looks cool.. "Disclaimer this is not a mod"

Allso Equal exchange 2 suxsors arse. (Beside point)

And yeah it's easy for the rest of us to just stand behind KaneHard and let him take the blame for what everybody else is thinking.. That said. Kane Herd is an Ass.

Quote from Kane Hart

After that I would say get a small team of active people not just 1 or 2 but 5-6 people who are dedicated testers

they already have a good amount of testers in a server run by pahimar, i learned about this from direwolf 20's channel

Quote

they already have a good amount of testers in a server run by pahimar

these 1337 testers are bull hayo, dayzero critical bugs proof it, recipe bugs proof that everyone use closed beta access for lulz only and server actually creative.

this called closed F&F party, not beta testing.

Did not understand a word

Quote from RawCode

these 1337 testers are bull hayo, dayzero critical bugs proof it, recipe bugs proof that everyone use closed beta access for lulz only and server actually creative.

this called closed F&F party, not beta testing.

What?

"1337 testers are BS, 0 day bugs prove it, recipe balance proves the server is actually creative mode, this is called friends and family party not beta testing"