[Suggestion] Research System

Viper8797 · Jan 30th 2013

1st things 1st. Good day Industrialists!, i hope you are well and happy, that is important.

2nd I beg your pardon if this has already been researched, i DID used the search bar, however i just got flooded by greg/tech posts, and i would like to make a tread to collect suggestions and ideas.

Now, on to the suggestion.

Most of us have seen Thaumcraft 3 research system. It is rather nice, and it makes sense that a stevie that doesnt know how to make a wooden pick is unable to build high tech stuff. That doesnt happen in IC2. There is no researching or leveling up needed, only resources, so i will suggest a research system for IC! (Open to suggestions)

So, first you would need lab gear. Build a basic Microscope (wood and glass), a basic centrifuge (Iron, redstone, e.t.c) and you will also need a chemical lab and a note pad.
It works this way:

You gather an item, lets say redstone. You take it to a microscope, place it and analyze it. You place redstone in the GUI and press "Analyse". A bar starts growing slowly (The more advanced the item, the more time it takes, but never more than a minute or two). If you take out the GUI, the bar will slowly decrease. after it completes, you will get a fact. It will get stored in the microscope, you get your notepad and right click it to gather the fact (EX: Redstone in a basic Microscope: It seems that the material is fragile, yet highly conductible of certain tipes of signals). By using different equipment you will get different facts. (EX: Redstone in a centrifuge: Composed mostly of minerals that fuse at low temperatures).

So, you gather facts, take it to a research table and right click it with the notepad were you have your facts stored. They will transfer and you will see the facts listed in categories. Type of equipment > Tier of equipment > Material. Double click a fact and it will transfer to the research area. Combine facts together to obtain blueprints. (EX: High conductivity of redstone + Light focusing of glass + Thermal resistance of diamond = LASERS! Now you can write a blueprint\theory. This takes more time, in case of high tier research could take 10 to 20 minutes. Now right click the blueprint and TADAAAAA!! You can now build mining lasers.

However, by researching teories\blueprints, you can develop new tiers of research equipment. Research optics and you can build more advanced microscopes. After you research computers you can use a computer and CD-s instead of a research table and a notepad (faster that the previous ones, tough you can only use CD/s with eletronic microscopes for example)

Eventually, by researching AI, you could build robots. Sentry, Cargo and Researcher robots. Right click a computer with a research robot and he will research the techs you assign him to, so that you do something else (tough the robot is slower than you at researching)

One thing that you could build, more for the lolz, you be a scientific coat (boosts research speed and makes you feel like SCIENCE!)

Eventually you could combine facts, theories, robots in order to research everything, things like a nuclear reactor, quantum armors, everything!

Here are a few suggestion for tiers of research devices:

Research Table > Computer > Nano computer
Notepad > CD-s > Nano USB
Basic Microscope > Microscope > Eletronic Microscope
Basic Centrifuge > Centrifuge > Quantum Centrifuge
Basic Reaction Table > Laboratory > Nano lab

Maybe we could even research GLADOS .

So, what do you think_

MatLaPatate · Jan 30th 2013

Won't happen for IC². IC3, maybe. Or with some addons. Also, did you see my suggestions for Chemical Research for GregTech ? My suggestion would have been a way to introduce a research system without being a huge overhaul for all IC².
But I would love to see any research system in IC². I would suggest making it working by hand (fast, will cost sometimes some materials) or with machines (mass spectrometer, Particle Collider, computer or something else ... would be way more expensive, and it would need insane amounts of EU, but for those that consider it as a pain ... ^^. At least it would be a way to be sure to get what you want (or to get A discovery, and not to get nothing).

Sinnaj63 · Jan 31st 2013

The form of Research suggested by Snakey is Way to boring and to fast.
I would like an research system where you must first educate villager children, using a school andca university(Maybe Libarians as teachers). Then, you can use them as scientist to research. Ofcourse, you would also be able to give the educated villagers other jobs, they could get engineers in a reactor or maintain your factory.

LostCoder · Jan 31st 2013

Researches is interesting when you do them for first time, and annoying and boring if you start over, e.g. if you lost you world or something else, because you already know what is waiting you at the end but you still need to spend time to pass through researches, random in that case usually only get things worse. That's why I don't like Thaumcraft - you already know there is golems, but you need to pass through a lot of annoying researches.

MatLaPatate · Jan 31st 2013

Quote from LostCoder

That's why I don't like Thaumcraft - you already know there is golems, but you need to pass through a lot of annoying researches.

I strongly disagree with that: the point that is ruining all the fun, is the fact when you've played TC3 once, you already know how to proceed to get your discoveries
(Guess why I suggested to Greg making a research system based on random chemical components, that would change at each world generation ? ^^)

Requia · Jan 31st 2013

Making the components more random would be a lot of fun.

Though, Thaumcraft3s research system also serves to make things more expensive. Building golems would have been trivial if I hadn't spent all my soul sand learning to make them in the first place (though early game goggles would be nice, I just found a 900+ aura node but the time to move there... I guess I could set the arcane bore up there).

narc · Feb 1st 2013

Quote from Viper8797

That doesnt happen in IC2. There is no researching or leveling up needed, only resources

That also doesn't happen in vanilla Minecraft. This has always been one of the things I *LIKE* about Minecraft. I'm also on the same page as LostCoder regarding Thaumcraft research -- the cheat sheet version of the Thaumonomicon exists for me to use.

Other than that, enjoy your game your way; if you like having to "research" something before being able to use it, more power to you -- unless you intend to change my game, which I don't think you want to.

Luckbot · Feb 5th 2013

a thaumcraftlike researchsystem is only annoying when you play again...
but i'd like something like this:

for high-end technology you need to do research a single time (different ones for different things)
like "find the right mixture of materials to make ITNT or the Nuke" and when you fail there is a chance of blowing things up
but when you did the right combination the normal recipe gets unlocked (and you already know the mixture for the next time)
i'd implement that with a single block where you do the research...
another way would be to build a large structure first and then activate your research block nearby (so it wouldnt have to check every few ticks if the structure is correctly built) some examples could be a large interferometer to unlock laser technology, a big centrifuge where you refine uranium for the first time before you can do it in a compressor (chances of radiation poisoning and even worse if you do mistakes) and maybe a Hadron Collider to unlock UUM and Teleporters

that would be more like the typical minecraft "before i can get to the nether i have to make a diamond pickaxe"

but i doubt that this might get added... it would need a rewrite to be built in nicely

gone · Feb 5th 2013

A cheaty way to solve this "researching all over again" is by copying the research files to your new world. Yeah, you could say that it's BS, but I'm just suggesting.

I however do like research systems. It's not like people waaaay back in the time of Rome could tell what the difference was between aluminium and iron. They had to research the properties of it and then find out where it could be useful for.

Rick · Feb 5th 2013

I dont think the ppl in rome could even produce aluminium since it was discovered in 1825 and not until 1866 they discovered a way to mass produce it. There is no aluminium in the ground only bauxite (aluminiumoxide) and you need a special way to produce aluminium from it.

1+ for research hope it gets added.

Luckbot · Feb 6th 2013

the romans just discovered iron guess they did research if its better than bronze and noticed that it was way better for weapons after a few minutes

chaos_legion · Feb 7th 2013

And one of the requirements for HV usage would be to catch lighting with some iron fence pointing up in the sky (gregtech tm)

Epic Lulz · Feb 7th 2013

Quote from chaos_legion

And one of the requirements for HV usage would be to catch lighting with some iron fence pointing up in the sky (gregtech tm)

Lightning rods in Vanilla IC2?

nope.avi

Viper8797 · Feb 7th 2013

@ chaos

You know. Greg tech already has that. You should look for addons first before suggesting.

Also, bear in mind, this should be a addon, or in vanilla IC2 with a config to turn off.

chaos_legion · Feb 8th 2013

Viper8797

look for addons? really??? why did i place that (gregtech tm) in the end i wonder ???
Also i beliveve it should be in vanilla ic2 or ic3 without config to turn off.

@all
The whole research idea is great but i would give it a thought about adding researches for some non-existing things only like nano and q-armor, massfabricator and Tech IV things that IC going to give us sooner or later.

also research system would require EVERY SINGLE ic addon to be redone, according to new mechanics. thats alot of work.

MatLaPatate · Feb 8th 2013

Quote from chaos_legion

@all
The whole research idea is great but i would give it a thought about adding researches for some non-existing things only like nano and q-armor, massfabricator and Tech IV things that IC going to give us sooner or later.

also research system would require EVERY SINGLE ic addon to be redone, according to new mechanics. thats alot of work.

Guess why the research system based on Chemistry I suggested to Greg was only meant to give you some bonus features when you've performed any research ...

RawCode · Feb 8th 2013

all implemented research systems at this moment are korea style grinding time eaters.

there is no fun in repeating something 100 times just to get pink bricks or faster furnace, especially when game still force you to perform manual assembly of all components.

TC3 is great exsample of korean grinding and mod strongly against any means of automation.

MatLaPatate · Feb 8th 2013

Quote from RawCode

TC3 is great exsample of korean grinding and mod strongly against any means of automation.

I disagree with you. I think TC3 research system is awesome, the only issue it has is the fact once you've complete entirely, next game will be kindof boring ... the first time it's just awesome, because you are amazed by cool features and you're just not rushing special tech you already know ...

narc · Feb 8th 2013

Quote from RawCode

TC3 is great exsample of [...] mod strongly against any means of automation.

Except its own automation (golems). Which take a bunch of grinding to reach in the first place.

Requia · Feb 9th 2013

Quote from RawCode

all implemented research systems at this moment are korea style grinding time eaters.

there is no fun in repeating something 100 times just to get pink bricks or faster furnace, especially when game still force you to perform manual assembly of all components.

TC3 is great exsample of korean grinding and mod strongly against any means of automation.

Aside from lost knowledge stuff, it only took me a few hours to get the whole book filled (though, I had reserves of items sufficient to do it all in one go). What it really does is add in a different way of making things expensive. Instead of expensive recipes it makes unlocking the recipes in the first place expensive, but once you're done things are relatively cheap.

[Suggestion] Research System

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