[GregTech] Science! Show and discouss concepts of Machines, and their underlying Math

1st Official Post
    • Official Post

    This is a Thread about general Machines and even exploits you can create with them. I'm thinking of concepts like SpwnX Iron/Magnesium Maker, not about large Factories. For Factories we got the Engineering Thread.


    Explain your Setup and show the basic Math and purpose of your Machine. If possible use only GregTech automation or vanilla Automation to achieve your Goal. That includes usage of Rockbreakers instead of using Igneous Extruders as well, as all should be realizable (and EU-costly) using IC²+GT alone.


    Screenshots might be helpful, but you should use the Attachment System of the Forum to display them, instead of using external Imagehosting Services. The Filesize-Limit got raised to 4.5MB recently, so it shouldn't be a Problem. And please dont use Texturepacks (aside from Faithful-HD), I don't wanna see tons of Pentagons...


    Oh, and if you have another Design of the same Machine (due to needing patches for MC-Updates), then edit the old Post to contain it, instead of making a new one, so that I don't have to change the Links.


    Index of useful contraptions:
    SpwnX Obsidian Processor for producing Iron, Magnesium and Silicon
    SpwnX Sugar Cane powered Carbon Plate Generator
    SpwnX IC²-Biofuel Generator

    If I'm interpreting this right, that means only theoretical stuff here right?


    So here's an idea I came up sometime back. Hydrogen-powered boilers.


    IC2 Pump immersed in water consumes 200 EU per operation, for a total of 1 EU/t. This means it takes 200 t at full speed, or 10 s. As each electrolyzer takes 727 t to electrolyze at full speed, 3.5 electrolyzers can be powered by 1 pump. The water cells are deposited in a hopper and transferred to a liquid transposer. The liquid transposer takes 160 MJ / (4 MJ/t) = 40 t. Hence, 5 pumps can be served by 1 transposer. The liquid is then pumped to a buffer storage then to the electrolyzers (or just straight to the electrolyzer)


    Hydrogen costs 93 000 EU to electrolyze and produces 4000 mB. They are then transported into a transposer (which can support 18 electrolyzers) where liquid is transported to the boiler. I'm not sure how much electrolyzers should be in each section for max efficiency but 14 is probably enough. This requires 4 pumps and 2 transposers.


    As 1 36LP boiler require 7.92 heat/t, which is 3.96 mB/t, and hydrogen is produced by 1 electrolyzer at 5.50 mB/t, there can be 1.38 boilers per electrolyzer, 4 boilers per 3 electrolyzers or 19.45 boilers per 14 electrolyzers.


    19 boilers produce 6840 mB/t, which translates to 2137.5 EU/t using a steam turbine. If you use PowerConverters' default value, that would be 3325 EU/t. However, take in mind the cost of 14 boilers and 4 pumps, a grand total of 1796 EU/t (which should be slightly less, but I factor in the MJ cost which should bring it back to around there) and the net gain comes to 340 EU/t for steam turbine and about 1530 EU/t for PowerConverters. This does require a working steel farm, which needs an iron farm (zombie, iron golem or ferru) and a coal or charcoal farm (tree or wither skeleton farm) so this idea would probably go under semi-Rube Goldberg machine.

    • Official Post

    Iron/Magnesium/Liquid Silicon Generator [1.4.7]:


    Screenshots and Map with the contraption in attachments.
    Edit: I forgot that if you don't have the same config as me you might not be able to use the map so you should download it first.
    Greg's Hint : You can substitute lava fabricator/igneous extruder by using redstone to produce obsidian.

    • Official Post

    Carbon Plate "Generator" [1.4.7]:


    Screenshots, Map and Config attached.

    Quote from Epic Lulz

    --snip--

    You can increase efficiency of steam boilers if you run them in heating/cooling cycles. Theoretical maximum is 25 % increase of burn time, because cooling is 4 times faster then heating up in final stage of boiler heatup. Practically one 36 HP boiler runs without problems with one bucket of biofuel per 124 s, when normally it uses 1 bucket per 100 s. In this situation it could provide additional 500 EU/t. Running steel cost of turbine is really small if you don't let them break, it is about 24 steel every 60 hours per boiler, you can even make it with UU matter (but electrolysis of obsidian dust from rock crusher is a lot cheaper, even with magma crucible), splitter cable and normal BC gate is enough to prevent unnecessary steel loss. You can also cut on IC2 pumps by using dispensers with buckets. Power converters are boring.

    • Official Post
    Quote from SpwnX


    Gravisuit (just for the quantum generator, not required)

    Its ASP that adds the Quantum Generator ^^
    When i get back to my house tomorrow i will post my Methane Farm.

    The steam upgrades sound extremely cool.

    Quote from Zjarek

    You can increase efficiency of steam boilers if you run them in heating/cooling cycles. Theoretical maximum is 25 % increase of burn time, because cooling is 4 times faster then heating up in final stage of boiler heatup. Practically one 36 HP boiler runs without problems with one bucket of biofuel per 124 s, when normally it uses 1 bucket per 100 s. In this situation it could provide additional 500 EU/t. Running steel cost of turbine is really small if you don't let them break, it is about 24 steel every 60 hours per boiler, you can even make it with UU matter (but electrolysis of obsidian dust from rock crusher is a lot cheaper, even with magma crucible), splitter cable and normal BC gate is enough to prevent unnecessary steel loss. You can also cut on IC2 pumps by using dispensers with buckets. Power converters are boring.

    Dispensers + buckets may be laggy.


    Ah so I would need redstone circuits to throttle usage of hydrogen? With my limited knowledge of redstone, that means I have to use ComputerCraft or wait for Greg's Redstone Machine thingy, which I've been trying to avoid. What is the hydrogen extraction rate using ducts?


    I don't want to use UU-matter, that would eat into my energy. I might not even break even. Anyway, UU-Coal can't make steel. So I'll steel need a tree farm.

    Quote from Epic Lulz

    What is the hydrogen extraction rate using ducts?

    It is 100 mB per game tick, tested on short pulses (pulse former -> 200 mB, full repeater -> 800 mB, stone button -> 1900 mB). Liquiducts should also distribute liquids evenly, but remember not to connect more than one liquid receiver to one single piece of liquiduct (one block), because then it behaves really weirdly.

    • Official Post

    It is not exploits, its the knowledge of recipes and the materials it requires... sad.


    Also, i won't make 1.5.1 machines until cubcraft is updated =D
    When it is, i will "fix" the machines. Or you can just use an advanced translocator/change a bit the location of buffers and you are good.

    Quote from GregoriusT

    So that I can fix them later.

    So, why is the Obsidian to Iron still not nerfed/fixed ? Wait ... maybe because it ... cost tons of EUs ?


    Btw SpwnX, I'm assuming it's exploits, since having the same knowledge of recipies you have, I see what I could make with, but I don't use it since I'm thinking this is not intended by devs. That being said ... maybe I'll use those for PvP ^^


    Soon with Molten Salt Reactors, right ? :D
    NERF THA FUSION REACTOR!

    • Official Post

    It is a bit pointless to me to build machines if you are going to "fix" them later...
    Exploits as duplication or heavy profit at low cost machines is okay if you fix it.






    Well, knowledge is power so i might feel like keeping it to myself.

    • Official Post
    Quote from MatLaPatate

    ... especially with PvP incoming ... don't explain our oponents how we'll do to beat them all ^^

    Well... CubCraft PvP will be shitty, i'm almost sure about that.
    Cublikefoot and his friends dislike the "anarchy" type of server.

    well next math gave me some nice free energy:


    needed:
    (at least)
    1 MFSU
    1 electrolyser (ic2)
    1 transformer from HV to MV
    1 gregtech electrolyser
    some other mod to pump watercells and electrolysed watecells between the two types of electrolysers.


    setup:
    1. insert first some energy into the MFSU
    2. insert some watercells into the gregtech electrolyser (which is conected to the transformer that is connected tot the MFSU
    3. let the system pump the electrolysed cells to the ic2 electrolyser
    4. wait some time to uncharge the cells
    5. pump the watercells from the ic2 electrolyser to the gregtech electrolyser
    6. repeat until no energy is needed anymore.


    math used for this:
    creating 1 cell in a gregtech uses 16384eu
    unloading 1 electrolysed cell into ic2 electrolyser connected to an MFSU (only if connected to the MFSU!) gives you 18000eu @ 32eu/t
    so for a full setup without wait times you will need 4 ic2-electrolysers, 1 gregtech industrial electrolyser and some pumpung system


    -> overal profit:
    4 * ( 18000-16384 ) = 6460eu @ 11.48eu/t
    [if you used an MFE] 4 * (16000-16384) = ENERGY LOSS!!


    no yet tested with the full automated setup, but its nice to know you win energy by charging and uncharging water :p

    English -> not my lang, so sorry for the mistakes. (can be the dyslexia too :/)


    GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the
    generation. Social experiment.