I can't see any alternative methods (version 5.09.01)
And what about steam math?
One more question) May you create two types of machines output sign - one for materials and one for fluids? Otherwise it is difficult to make the scheme of resource processing
Any 5.09.01 changelogs? As for me, I haven't seen any
To sum it up: It would be great to have more early viable options, like a Gregtech biofuel produtcion around the lv/mv age, and a recipe to the nuclear reactor.
Since GT still depends on IC2, you should still be able to do biofuel the IC2 way.
What's overpowered about tree farms? I dislike MFR because of how unbalanced it is so I don't use it but the tree farm I use right now is run off of opencomputers robots. There's simply no way to run an EBF without automated energy and there's no automated energy outside of tree farms and lava. The notion of tree farms and lava being overpowered annoys me because that's like saying "if you aren't constantly energy starved the game is broken". If you can't do automated energy then you're pretty much just sitting on your hands most of the time waiting for things to get done. That or manually cutting trees, hunting for coal, or hunting for oil. No thanks. I'd rather play smart than play hard.
If you're not using any mods with easy, automated tree-farming, nothing is OP about tree farms. However if you have farms that magically spawn full-grown trees every few minutes and cut them down and create steam from the wood or charcoal, its common to see people doing this in the late-game, because there's no reason not to.
I'm in full agreement with you that playing smart is better, which is why I don't want to nerf tree farms in every respect. They have their place, which is the early-to-late steam age. But running a nuclear-age society from tree farming is absurd.
My goal would be to leave tree farms alone in the early game, or make them even better than they already are. But if you try to do too much with them, they start to clog down your industry.
Have been away from GT for a while, does this modified version of gt supports direct IC2 cable input now? (since there is already RF support)
Edit: all right it's still the same, could you make it works at least with aroma1997's classic e-net modification?
I can't even imagine how hard it would be to try to adapt to Aroma's e-net :\ I believe Blood as set up a config that lets you completely disable IC2 cables and just use GT ones however, which is similar enough (lossiness is back, and wire-fires, etc)
The problem with nuclear is the high barrier to entry and difficulty in automation. It takes a Lot of resources (admittedly much less now) and in order to get it to a "set and forget" state you need to use mods like AE2 or CC turtles or OC robots. If you're using just an import/export setup like with AE2 then your designs are limited to having all fuel cells be the same, having no empty slots in the reactor, and not being able to replace any components except for fuel cells. You can forget about cycling coolant cells in a hot reactor design without robots. I don't find it fun to tend a series of reactors every few hours.
The problem with nuclear is the high barrier to entry and difficulty in automation. It takes a Lot of resources (admittedly much less now) and in order to get it to a "set and forget" state you need to use mods like AE2 or CC turtles or OC robots. If you're using just an import/export setup like with AE2 then your designs are limited to having all fuel cells be the same, having no empty slots in the reactor, and not being able to replace any components except for fuel cells. You can forget about cycling coolant cells in a hot reactor design without robots. I don't find it fun to tend a series of reactors every few hours.
Are these really problems though?
For entry requirements, IC2 nuclear reactors are mostly just a bunch of low-tier resources (gold, copper, tin, etc...all furnace-able). Also, people sometimes tend to forget that they aren't required to immediately set up a Top-Tier 6-Chamber reactor straight away. Realistically they should be making smaller reactors at first, and working their way up, instead of getting the very best on day 1. In this scenario, they're not all that hard to get into.
For automation, well this totally depends on what mods you're using. Automation is a no-brainer if you have EnderIO for instance. But even without it, a lack of automation entirely isn't really a problem. There's no rule that says everything needs to be set-and-forget.
I can't even imagine how hard it would be to try to adapt to Aroma's e-net :\ I believe Blood as set up a config that lets you completely disable IC2 cables and just use GT ones however, which is similar enough (lossiness is back, and wire-fires, etc)
Thing I still have difficulties about GT E-Net:
Practicalities:
- It is inappropriate to centralize energy production.
- It is inappropriate to power roaming/long distance on site industry (pumping/mining)
Design:
- Hiding cables inside construction is limited
- Cables hit-boxes are a full block. Blocking inventory interaction from a connected machine side would still be possible and a smarter implementation even with minimal wires, cables, pipes hit-boxes.
- Covers don't support all material
- Light rendering on covers has no ambient occlusion making them distinguishable from surrounding plain blocks even with same material.
- Cables connect each others by default despite being jacketed. So you have to use ugly full size covers to separate cables.
I propose cables connect only when placed at one end of an existing same cable or machine. Cables interconnects shall not be allowed at all (use a machine block or transformer or similar device as a junction box if you really need to split power. This should also fix issues with bouncing packets.
For automation, well this totally depends on what mods you're using. Automation is a no-brainer if you have EnderIO for instance. But even without it, a lack of automation entirely isn't really a problem. There's no rule that says everything needs to be set-and-forget.
To me it is. I'd rather spend my time making systems rather than maintaining them. One is design work and the other is busy work. A reactor run is about 3 hours. In a chunk loaded server you can limit the use of a non automated reactor to limited processing runs. This in itself isn't much of an issue but it just means I have to log in when I wake up, refuel, add more processing jobs, then come back in the evening and everything has been sitting idle for hours. I can't be the only one who is obsessed with time efficiency.
To me it is. I'd rather spend my time making systems rather than maintaining them. One is design work and the other is busy work. A reactor run is about 3 hours. In a chunk loaded server you can limit the use of a non automated reactor to limited processing runs. This in itself isn't much of an issue but it just means I have to log in when I wake up, refuel, add more processing jobs, then come back in the evening and everything has been sitting idle for hours. I can't be the only one who is obsessed with time efficiency.
Im obsessed with automation, and i agree with this. I love GT difficulty, but i don't understand why we have to get forced to do some manual jobs in order to get a system constantly working. I think the goal of technology is to make life easier, but in this case its counterproductive.
Display MoreThing I still have difficulties about GT E-Net:
Practicalities:
- It is inappropriate to centralize energy production.
- It is inappropriate to power roaming/long distance on site industry (pumping/mining)
Design:
- Hiding cables inside construction is limited
- Cables hit-boxes are a full block. Blocking inventory interaction from a connected machine side would still be possible and a smarter implementation even with minimal wires, cables, pipes hit-boxes.
- Covers don't support all material
- Light rendering on covers has no ambient occlusion making them distinguishable from surrounding plain blocks even with same material.
- Cables connect each others by default despite being jacketed. So you have to use ugly full size covers to separate cables.
I propose cables connect only when placed at one end of an existing same cable or machine. Cables interconnects shall not be allowed at all (use a machine block or transformer or similar device as a junction box if you really need to split power. This should also fix issues with bouncing packets.
While most of this is true, it would need a complete rewrite of all cables and pipes. Not worth the hassle. It would likely be easier to make another mods cable system compatible with GT. For example EnderIO Conduits or IE would look really nice fused with the GT system. But while i would like to do that, i'm a bit scared of the work that means. So for now it is only a idea unlikel to become real.
Also, it is possible to seperate cables with colors. No need for huge covers in between.
Thing I still have difficulties about GT E-Net:
Practicalities:
- It is inappropriate to centralize energy production.
- It is inappropriate to power roaming/long distance on site industry (pumping/mining)
Do you mean "inappropriate" here? Or something like "inefficient" or "inelegant"?
I definitely find the power centralization to be a challenge. I prefer to have a "power storage" facility, and power my entire base from that one facility. To do this, I just ensure I transmit power on the highest voltage possible, so as to mitigate losses. I don't mind losing 1 eu/t on an EV line, but it sure does suck on an LV line.
Display More
Design:
- Hiding cables inside construction is limited
- Cables hit-boxes are a full block. Blocking inventory interaction from a connected machine side would still be possible and a smarter implementation even with minimal wires, cables, pipes hit-boxes.
- Covers don't support all material
- Light rendering on covers has no ambient occlusion making them distinguishable from surrounding plain blocks even with same material.
- Cables connect each others by default despite being jacketed. So you have to use ugly full size covers to separate cables.
I propose cables connect only when placed at one end of an existing same cable or machine. Cables interconnects shall not be allowed at all (use a machine block or transformer or similar device as a junction box if you really need to split power. This should also fix issues with bouncing packets.
Most of these are all nice-to-haves which are unlikely to be produced for cost/benefit reasons.
To me it is. I'd rather spend my time making systems rather than maintaining them. One is design work and the other is busy work. A reactor run is about 3 hours. In a chunk loaded server you can limit the use of a non automated reactor to limited processing runs. This in itself isn't much of an issue but it just means I have to log in when I wake up, refuel, add more processing jobs, then come back in the evening and everything has been sitting idle for hours. I can't be the only one who is obsessed with time efficiency.
Everybody would rather spend their time making systems than maintaining them. Busy-work sucks, and that's part of the cost/benefit equation here. Some people would rather manually refuel their reactor every 48 hours than automate it (or every three in your case, since I gather yours tend to run full-time).
Its important to remember that the original concern with reactors and automation wasn't that it was impossible, just that it was hard, and that's what I was responding to. You can automate reactors if you want to put in the time and effort.
What do you mean with steam math? I did not change anything there.
From changelog: Increase Large Boiler Efficiency: Steel 1.5x 24.000->36.000. But this power multiplying for boilers does not work - large steam boiler still produces 24000 mB/sec. What did happened with small turbines? Earlier advanced steam turbine (128 eu) ate 512 mB/tic according to formula energy output*2/efficiency (128*2/0.50=512). And now it requires twice a lot of steam (1024 mB/tic)... Then... Old formula for large steam turbine also does not work. For example, if steel boiler produces 24000 mB/sec this amount must give 600*rotor efficiency (720 eu/tic for 120% efficiency). But, large aluminium or cobalt brass rotors (120%) have different output - 650 and 560 eu/tic. Not 720!
I did disable charcoal in 5.09 and add alternative methods for that. If you are using 5.08, that it must be a modpack setting.
What alternative methods did you add?
Its important to remember that the original concern with reactors and automation wasn't that it was impossible, just that it was hard, and that's what I was responding to. You can automate reactors if you want to put in the time and effort.
And I am. I was just pointing out that it's made so difficult that you need a series of factorization routers or a computer mod robot of some sort to have the kind of inventory interface necessary to do proper automation without limited designs (always full of components, components not swappable, only one type of fuel cell).
@Bloodasp
An alternate good non-op method of producing charcoal would be to add wood and coal recipes to a thermal centrifuge or distillation tower (depend on witch one look more appropriate) given proper input and output devices to the multi-block structure.
Distillation of wood dust/pulp (yes, raw wood logs or plans are inappropriate, so either macerate/grind/crush sawdust, chips or bolts)
Items output:
- Charcoal dust (may be formed into (extruder/alloy smelter) to give vanilla charcoal gems for compatibility)
- Ashes
fluid output:
- Creosote
- Hydrogen
- Water
Distillation of charcoal/coal dust
Item output:
- Coke
- Ashes
fluid output:
- Creosote
- Methane (one way better then RC coke ovens)
And I am. I was just pointing out that it's made so difficult that you need a series of factorization routers or a computer mod robot of some sort to have the kind of inventory interface necessary to do proper automation without limited designs (always full of components, components not swappable, only one type of fuel cell).
Yep, those are all obstacles, and they really do offend some play-styles.
I've never come across any ideas that actually mitigate these challenges to a degree that pleases one player without simply alienating another :\
What alternative methods did you add?
I rised the output of steam per coal. So one coal burn longer. The output per tick is still the same.
The turbines only should have changed efficiencys as visible in the tooltips. Maybe some of the math broke and results in this behavior.
For charcoal: First in Steam age: Charcoal Pile. Can not be automated. Stack a hill of logs on top of a layer of bricks, but dirt on top and on the sides. Place the Igniter block on top and rightclick it. After about 5-10min, depending on the size, the logs turn into brittle charcoal blocks that can be crafted into charcoal items.
At the end of LV or the beginning of MV, the Pyrolyse Oven will be added. It is basicly a fast and powerfull version of the RC Cokeoven. By rising the temperature, it is possible to created bio oil instead of charcoal in it.
And I am. I was just pointing out that it's made so difficult that you need a series of factorization routers or a computer mod robot of some sort to have the kind of inventory interface necessary to do proper automation without limited designs (always full of components, components not swappable, only one type of fuel cell).
You must do something wrong. I can automate a IC2 reactor using different fuel rod types with one regulator and one item filter easily. Reactors with only one type of fuel rods even only a hopper as input instead of a regulator.
Since GT still depends on IC2, you should still be able to do biofuel the IC2 way.
Well, don't tell that there is a way to do it too, and I wasn't aware...
I looked everywhere on NEI, biofuel the recipe always ends on a loop on the canning machine;
I followed by plants, but it says that I can only do biochaff -> dirt block.
Well, don't tell that there is a way to do it too, and I wasn't aware...
I looked everywhere on NEI, biofuel the recipe always ends on a loop on the canning machine;
I followed by plants, but it says that I can only do biochaff -> dirt block.
The new IC2 machines all miss NEI entrys. So for the missing machines look into the IC2 Wiki.
Well, don't tell that there is a way to do it too, and I wasn't aware...
I looked everywhere on NEI, biofuel the recipe always ends on a loop on the canning machine;
I followed by plants, but it says that I can only do biochaff -> dirt block.
Yeah, IC2 NEI is a total gong show sometimes 
Youtube it, there's plenty of videos on it. unggod did a setup or two that tells you everything you need to know.
The new IC2 machines all miss NEI entrys. So for the missing machines look into the IC2 Wiki.
The Blast Furnace has NEI support, it's not like people don't know how to make refined iron, so it could be worse.
Yeah, IC2 NEI is a total gong show sometimes
Youtube it, there's plenty of videos on it. unggod did a setup or two that tells you everything you need to know.
I thought that that was for servers with IC² machines enabled. I used to play earlier versions of GT when he disabled all IC², so I didn't even tried this time. But thanks again, I'll try when I get home.
Man, if I can't trust on NEI, who else I can trust? 
