The one and only [OFFICIAL] Technic discussion thread.


  • You can copyright you mods but the overall copyright is unenforceable because (at least in the U.S.) you need to sue for damages, and you need to be able to show those damages. Mods are free anyone can download them so showing monetary damage is almost impossible. You could have a lawyer draw up a cease and desist but that would cost a lot of money and for very little gain.


    You could create a lawsuit that stated, this guy had his modpack that I didn't give permission to use and he got x downloads that denied me x amount of site ad revenue. However you still would need to prove that A. that without the mod pack the people would have come directly to you and downloaded it, and B. the about of revenue you got from ad's is guaranteed and it isn't because of ad block, no script and other programs.


    I don't know the accuracy but according to Kakermix the only mods that have refused to give permission to distribute to technic are buildcraft and forestry and forestry is going to be removed due to incompatibility

  • You can copyright you mods but the overall copyright is unenforceable because (at least in the U.S.) you need to sue for damages, and you need to be able to show those damages. Mods are free anyone can download them so showing monetary damage is almost impossible. You could have a lawyer draw up a cease and desist but that would cost a lot of money and for very little gain.


    You could create a lawsuit that stated, this guy had his modpack that I didn't give permission to use and he got x downloads that denied me x amount of site ad revenue. However you still would need to prove that A. that without the mod pack the people would have come directly to you and downloaded it, and B. the about of revenue you got from ad's is guaranteed and it isn't because of ad block, no script and other programs.


    I don't know the accuracy but according to Kakermix the only mods that have refused to give permission to distribute to technic are buildcraft and forestry and forestry is going to be removed due to incompatibility


    Wrong, you don't "need to sue for damages". You can very much so file a suit to get them shut down.

  • Mod developers cannot sue anyone. They have first of all, not copyrighted their works because mojang already owns minecraft itself and as such the mod developers cannot copyright a modification to someone else's copyright.


    Nice try.


    quote@- Wikipedia;Fair Use;Common Misunderstandings:

    • It's copyrighted, so it can't be fair use. On the contrary, fair use applies only to copyrighted works, describing conditions under which copyrighted material may be used without permission. If a work is not copyrighted, fair use does not come into play, since public-domain works can be used for any purpose without violating copyright law.

      • Note: In some countries (including the United States of America), the mere creation of a work establishes copyright over it, and there is no legal requirement to register or declare copyright ownership


    Most of the mods have enough original content, code and functionality that they would qualify for their own copyright, even if they don't expressly declare it.


    I don't know the accuracy but according to Kakermix the only mods that have refused to give permission to distribute to technic are buildcraft and forestry and forestry is going to be removed due to incompatibility


    And doesn't it seem like a decent person would bow to the wishes of the creator? It shouldn't take for a developer to force incompatibility and write a landmine into their code.


    The days of Tekkit are most likely coming to an end regardless. Assuming Mojang does their API right then all the mods will move to it and there's your 'easy way'.


    Wrong, you don't "need to sue for damages". You can very much so file a suit to get them shut down.


    +1

    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

  • Even if that is true, and I highly doubt it, all you would need to do is go to the mod's site directly and donate to bypass that.

    Its not true. technic links directly to the mod developers own donation links.

  • But there are many stupid people who use that links.

    I don't know why you people feel the need to lie, but let me school you a little here.


    A: using "View Source" on a website is not "hacking". Your friend, if he exists, is a tool and a douchebag trying to impress you. Likewise Mr. "informatics student". The reason I come to this conclusion is that one does not need to view the server-side portion of the source code (in this case, the PHP code) of a website to see the paypal integration part for simple donation buttons. Those are all done in javascript+HTML snippets, which is interpreted on the client side (i.e. in your web browser) and can be seen with view source and further examined using the developer tools that come standard in many browsers (or in the case of firefox, exist as plugins). Again, I repeat, this is not "hacking" - either in the MIT sense or the underground sense or in the mass media sense. Claiming that it is "hacking" is asinine and an insult to all three kinds of hackers.


    B: I repeat, the donate buttons are client-side javascript snippets provided directly from paypal. They can only be superficially customized and all that they do basically is create a link with some appropriate GET query variables (google it) and wrap that link around an image. Those variable just help Paypal establish to whom the donation is supposed to go. One cannot create a paypal donation button that splits its receipts between multiple paypal accounts. In fact, no variety of the paypal API will let you do this.


    C: Any non-technical user can verify what account the donations are going to simply by looking at the account name displayed during the paypal checkout process and cross-checking it against the account name found there when direct linking from the mod author. Paypal, not the website where you clicked the donate button, controls 100% of the content on that page. You can verify this by observing, in your browser, the SSL security certificate from Paypal Inc. which is demonstrated in Firefox, for instance, by the blue or green highlighted company logo that shows up on SSL secured websites in the address bar. You can further verify that all elements of the page you're viewing are coming from where they claim to be coming from by using aforementioned developer tools, which your average "hacker" or "informatics student" may or may not know how to use properly (in firebug, open firebug, go to the "net" tab, and view the entries under the "domain" column).


    D: Paypal's API is extremely, almost insanely, paranoid and provably secure. No two-bit (no offense to KakerMix et al) programmers or mod compilation authors or website administrators have anywhere *near* the skill required to even attempt to break Paypal without a SWAT team showing up on their doorstep pretty soon afterward (and that unfortunately is not hyperbole). It meets and exceeds the extremely complicated and obnoxious industry standards required by the credit card industry to accept and process credit card payments. I am intimately familiar with those standards, having just had to implement them recently at work, and let me tell you, your little skiddie "hacker" friend would have less a chance of detecting a successful paypal exploit than of detecting neutrinos passing through his balls.


    It doesn't really matter how I know this stuff, since I could claim to be anybody I wanted to be here on the internetz, but if either of you guys wants to tangle with me over this go ahead and try.


    Also, while we're playing armchair lawyers here, these accusations could easily be construed as libel and people have had their lives destroyed by the justice system for saying less about the wrong people. Be careful who you go around accusing of being hackers and thieves, kiddos, especially when you don't know what you're talking about. Not even a little itty bitty tiny miniscule bit about what you're talking about. In fact so little that I'm saddened that the authors of this mod even allow this crap to persist in their forums. Further, I'm saddened by your inability to use Google to find out how incredibly little you know before you open your mouths about your dumb conspiracy theories, given that there are millions of pages search results of tutorials on web programming, paypal, real hacking (by any definition), identity theft, credit card fraud, and copyright law, that you could have perused in pursuit of these theories of yours.


    TL;DR: STFU, pissant trolls.


    To admins: hope ^ that doesn't upset you, but these guys have it coming and you must know it. Why do you let this garbage pollute your reputation, even by association? I only know about (and love) your mod because of tekkit, and whether or not you like it a large number of your fans use tekkit. Hating on it or letting douchetards hate on it is one thing, but these are blatant, vicious, retarded lies. I will hazard a guess your own experience as developers should tell you how stupid these accusations of donations theft are. I hate to have my first post here be a flame/rant, but this kind of garbage really gets under my skin.

  • All the donation links on the technic donation page are the links each modder had on their respective websites for donations. None of the donation links direct to any account owned or related to us, that's just silly and you should be ashamed for trying to troll like that. It even says who you're donating to when you do so. It's very destructive to the community. Please donate to all the modders and show them your support.


    As for bug reports related to using technic or tekkit, feel free to send them all to http://technicpack.net/forums/. We made and pay for a whole website so that modders don't have to deal with being annoyed by bug reports as much.

  • Correction: those aren't even javascript snippet versions, they're just the plain old HTML buttons. There's no voodoo going on there.

  • Wrong, you don't "need to sue for damages". You can very much so file a suit to get them shut down.


    Yes you can file a cease and disist as I stated but you would need to pay to do so. I doubt most mod devs consider it worth the money. You will not I didn't say that the copyrights were illegal I said unenforceable which means that because there is no real substance to the claim the best that a mod dev could hope for is to get technic to stop and it would require a large outlay of money to get that done.

  • I am personally against posting Tekkit servers on the server section, they belong in the Technic forum.


    +1 for making this official.


    (are there tekkit servers in the list? apparently so... one at least. But would that mentality extend to Bukkit as well?)

    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

  • I have a tekkit server on the server list and I have also donated money to IC for its great contribution to the tekkit pack and I think the IC crew would make a serious error in judgement by encouraging threads like this and not debunk people who make claims like the ones made in this thread (like that technic posts fake paypal links and pockets the money that is donated to IC through it)


    And on top of that start deleting all references to tekkit like servers listed that run it would be bad.



    I mean how hard is it to officially address the aforementioned accusations? "The paypal links are genuine and the money goes to IC"


    or confirm them if that's the case (its not)


  • And on top of that start deleting all references to tekkit like servers listed that run it would be bad.

    I can see the point of that though, Tekkit server would require the person install tekkit or build and configure their own "tekkit" client. Plus the technic forum offers space to share your server, they only asked that you put a decent effort into your post. Also splits them into open servers and whitelist servers with the chance of getting deluxe server if your post and sever prove exceptional. Be a lot easier to find tekkit players on there anyhow.

  • I can see the point of that though, Tekkit server would require the person install tekkit or build and configure their own "tekkit" client. Plus the technic forum offers space to share your server, they only asked that you put a decent effort into your post. Also splits them into open servers and whitelist servers with the chance of getting deluxe server if your post and sever prove exceptional. Be a lot easier to find tekkit players on there anyhow.

    I advertise on both and its helping the server a lot.

  • Quote

    "Copyright protection extends to all the
    copyrightable expression embodied in the computer program. Copyright protection
    is not available for ideas, program logic, algorithms, systems, methods,
    concepts, or layouts."


    Saying that Technic has stolen anything is silly. If a case was brought up in civil court as by definition of the case, it would not be held in criminal court. The case would most likely be thrown out just for the legal grey area that is ownership of minecraft mods, however it would probably be thrown out faster since the mod developer would have to prove damages were done and since Technic does not accept donations nor makes money off of the mod pack and instead directs people to donate to the mod authors as well as make no claims of ownership of the mod. There are no damages to the Mod Developer, there is no case.


    What all arguments come down to is based in opinion, whether you think what Technic does is wrong or right, and you cannot sue someone for opinions. The technic crew has their opinions on what they do, some people agree, even some mod developers agree, others do not and most of the time is because the MC Forums community has laid out so much disinformation about the above rights that they have created echo chamber of thinking errors, people begin to think that this disinformation is correct and when you combine misinformed users with strong patriotism towards mod developers with a few trouble starters blaring horns about false accusations of mod developers being wronged... Things just get out of control. Hell even in the most recent example of this Cheap Shot was supporting the Mod Author and his decision in his thread and still his posts were deleted because of how bad of an echo chamber it has become.


    Everyone really just needs to calm down about everything. You don't like Technic? That is fine, no one is forcing you to use it, no one is forcing you to read threads about it, just don't click on anything Technic related and its like its not even there. The Mod Developers are big boys, they don't need an army of fanatic fans speaking for them, if they don't want their mod in the pack, they only have to ask and everything can be kept in private so that no flame wars leak out into the forums disrupting normal chat. :(

  • And doesn't it seem like a decent person would bow to the wishes of the creator? It shouldn't take for a developer to force incompatibility and write a landmine into their code.

    Guess what? He never told them to take it out. Then, after Forestry had been in the pack for a long time, he wrote a malicious piece of code that broke some of the functionality of his mod with no indication as to why. Not only that, he didn't just break it for users of the Technic pack, but also users of the _launcher_, who download the mods themselves and use the launcher as a tool similar to MultiMC or Magic Launcher.



    Sengir is not the "decent person" here.

  • Back to topic, I do see a point in stating Tekkit Servers shouldn't be posted in IC² Server section. But then again, Servers running IC², RP, BC (effectively tekkit) shouldn't either.
    Which in the end would cancel out most servers.


    I will stick to defien the requirement for posting Servers in IC²'s section to "IC && *" instead of "IC"

  • To everyone in this thread:


    Are you saying :
    If I decide to install more than one mod at a time I am stealing?
    If I create a new minecraft launcher to manage the mods I've installed together I am a thief?
    If I share this with a few friends should I be hanged?
    If I put it on the internet for everyone to download with links to the original mod pages and downloads, credits to their authors, so everyone can enjoy the same mods I do without having to do the constant and tedious work of class merging, debugging, updating, and supporting all while not making any money that it's copyright infringement?


    first off, mods don't actually qualify for a copyright. Intellectual Property: yes. Copyright: no. derivative-work copyright: in some cases (definitely not IC).


    Can you sue technic? Sure. You can try, but since you only have IP and the only way you can win is if you can prove damages (which you can't unless you yourself are guilty of actual copyright infringement) and even if you can prove damages, derivative works are almost never awarded anything nor is it common for the defendant to be told to stop what they're doing. Basically, you waste a bunch of time and money to achieve nothing because copyright law is weird and it gets even weirder for minecraft. [based on US law]


    Finally, is it okay for the mod developer to put malicious code into their mod just because they don't like modpacks? All Sengir did was fuck up technic worlds. What if he decided to steal technic user accounts as punishment for using it? It's something that is completely doable.


    I only signed up to mention this. I'll watch the discussion if there is any but I won't post again. I think the reason the MC community is full of idiots is because everyone is acting like one. Mod developers (not all. just some) are trying to hoard all the pennies from adfly (another travesty) and mediafire counts instead of sharing their hard work with everyone. And I've completely ignored the fact that even if you don't like the technic pack, the technic launcher is fucking fantastic for every mod developer and only gets a bad rap because it was made by the technic/tekkit team. 20,000 users and growing daily. You could have your own modpack added to the launcher. That's an immediate 20,000 people who see your hard work, donate, and even contribute to your forums (which are easily accessible from everywhere on the technic site).


    I'm sorry but the only reasons I've heard from mod developers for why modpacks suck are petty and illogical. If you don't want people to discover your mod, then don't make it. If you expect people to use the MCF to find your mod, you're just mean. Curse is fucking terrible and reading MCF is like trying to explain war and peace to a drunken, retarded capybara.


    I do love the shit out of IC though. It's a good thing technic showed it to me or I would have NEVER installed it myself. Ever. Especially considering I'm never using BC again.



    edit: I do agree with OP though. I'm sure there aren't many people here equipped to support tekkit or the launcher should something go wrong and they should post their tekkit in a place that would provide support.