Making solars less OP

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    What's wrong with solars is that basically you make a generator -> batbox -> solar panels -> win.
    It's too easy.

    That's the same with all Green energy, only a few comes with different conditions/limitations... Only reason why Solar energy is so easy to 'pick on' is because you can gimmick the uptime of the generators by using a bed...


    I did post a suggestion where solars could use a mechanic where their max output was dependent on the specific time of day it was (intervals with dusk, dawn, and noon), but unfortunately it was ignored. However, it was the ONLY reasonable change that I could see with such technology that wouldn't break it to the point of pure uselessness...


    When I finish the first part of my Let's Play, you'll complain about how broken the |Wind - Electric E. - Fermenter - Bio Gen.|combo is... :rolleyes:

    Would anyone like to try a Slowpoke Tail?! Only 1 Million Yen!


    Quote

    this isn't about arrogance or ego, I have a block that I put a lot of freaking work into


    Every Mod Author, in existence. And yet, you STILL say otherwise.

  • calling anything in a game OP means you seek balance well here is a slap in the face with the cold smelly dead fish of reality!


    *fish-slap!* if we wanted every thing to be balanced there would be only one generator so that no option or play style can gain an edge over the other under any circumstance. but that would be DULL we want variety we want options and if every thing was even every thing would look the same and whats the fun in that? by minecrafts very nature you can't make a balanced game.


    *another fish-slap!* as my sig says true balance is impossible the best that can be done is to make it hard to guess what the best course of action is and that is the point we are already at. I'm not saying generators can't be nerfed or buffed but the drastic changes you are proposing are ridiculous especially when the OP-ness of solar can be put in to question.

    true balance is impossible in video games the best one can hope for is to make it really hard to guess which of 2 choices are better.
    and remember kids "NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF JOKES!"

  • calling anything in a game OP means you seek balance well here is a slap in the face with the cold smelly dead fish of reality!


    *fish-slap!* if we wanted every thing to be balanced there would be only one generator so that no option or play style can gain an edge over the other under any circumstance. but that would be DULL we want variety we want options and if every thing was even every thing would look the same and whats the fun in that? by minecrafts very nature you can't make a balanced game.


    *Counter Fish-Slap!* Theres one thing about making everything to be the exact same shit, and another its to make one thing highly desirable in certain situations that another. Solars don't suffer from that, they are highly desirable in EVERY SINGLE SITUATION due to how no-maintenance they are. (Others green generators suffer from this but end up being annoying to set-up so people mostly migrates to Solar, Craft > Place > Win)


    *another fish-slap!* as my sig says true balance is impossible the best that can be done is to make it hard to guess what the best course of action is and that is the point we are already at. I'm not saying generators can't be nerfed or buffed but the drastic changes you are proposing are ridiculous especially when the OP-ness of solar can be put in to question.


    *Another Counter Fish-Slap* Look at above, solars are the best option in every situation (Except for underground bases, but then again you can always just dig up to give the solars a clear view to make a few of those work), True balance may not exist in videogames but that isn't a excuse to make one thing always be the only one to be used in every situation available.


    Reducing the amount of energy a green generator outputs maybe drastic, but giving it a cap to how much energy a green generator can output before you need to replace the block or something inside the block its not so much crazy, at least it will give a clear line on how much better a green generator its against a nuclear/geothermal/regular generator is.


    But meh, thats just my 2 cents on the issue.


    P.S: I still find your title to be the most stupid thing thought ever.

  • Quote

    Reducing the amount of energy a green generator outputs maybe drastic, but giving it a cap to how much energy a green generator can output before you need to replace the block or something inside the block its not so much crazy, at least it will give a clear line on how much better a green generator its against a nuclear/geothermal/regular generator is.

    No... that's like saying that, on a water mill, water will stop flowing after X amount of time.. or wind will cease to blow on a windmill for the same...


    Photons from the Sun (thanks to the Photoelectric effect ) are stupidly easy to collect within reason. Plants have been using this process to drive their photosynthesis for MILLIONS of years.. And YOU want to have the mechanics of the universe to simply 'stop' working on something in the name of 'game balance'?


    I'm sorry, I'm going to have to replace your ill-conceived universe with one that actually makes damn sense...

    Would anyone like to try a Slowpoke Tail?! Only 1 Million Yen!


    Quote

    this isn't about arrogance or ego, I have a block that I put a lot of freaking work into


    Every Mod Author, in existence. And yet, you STILL say otherwise.

  • No... that's like saying that, on a water mill, water will stop flowing after X amount of time.. or wind will cease to blow on a windmill for the same...


    Photons from the Sun (thanks to the Photoelectric effect ) are stupidly easy to collect within reason. Plants have been using this process to drive their photosynthesis for MILLIONS of years.. And YOU want to have the mechanics of the universe to simply 'stop' working on something in the name of 'game balance'?


    I'm sorry, I'm going to have to replace your ill-conceived universe with one that actually makes damn sense...


    Oh god why, did you honestly think i was saying that the wind will stop blowing after the generators makes enough energy? Do you honestly think im so fucking retarded? DO YOU honestly think machines CAN NOT break after a extended period of time working NON-STOP?!


    Please don't underestimate my intelligence just because you didn't read fully well or because i may have been a little more vague that i was intending to.


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    ...but giving it a cap to how much energy a green generator can output before you need to replace the block or something inside the block its not so much crazy...


    I think that part in the text you quoted from me, makes it clear as day i never said anything about making the world goes bananas just because the green generator made enough energy.

  • Quote

    I think that part in the text you quoted from me, makes it clear as day i never said anything about making the world goes bananas just because the green generator made enough energy.

    And yet you failed to see MY point in the post: You CAN NOT STOP a renewable gen. from collecting energy due to how natural forces act upon it within the world! Those forces are constant, and do not stop simply for the sake of 'game balance'. To have an imperfection mechanic included with said machine would also imply that you'd have to include the same with fuel based generation, which leads us back to square one again, and defeating the purpose of this 'nerf'...


    No.. 'capping' said renewable energy production is exactly like I said: the natural forces of the world suddenly stop causing an effect upon them. THAT is exactly what you are suggesting...

    Would anyone like to try a Slowpoke Tail?! Only 1 Million Yen!


    Quote

    this isn't about arrogance or ego, I have a block that I put a lot of freaking work into


    Every Mod Author, in existence. And yet, you STILL say otherwise.

  • Well, 1EU/t is i think too much for solars, my idea is to make solars 0.1EU/t and have lifetime of 1M EU, before replacing photovoltaic panel (lets say you craft solar panel with CD - Gl -CD | Gl - CD - Gl) but that top layer would make photovoltaic plate that needs to be replaced after solar panel made 1M EU at 0.1EU/t rate, because sun burned it down and corrosion took its toll. I think this would make other generators more viable, and finally nuclear power to shine since you'll make more power with uranium than solar panels.
    Basicly solars would work like nuclear power plants with probably just 1 slot for photovoltaic panel that slowly wears out.


    Lets nerf manned watermills first, those laggy buggers!
    Anyway, solar is fine in my opinion since the last update it costs enough to justify its EU output and has decent limitations (the randomness of rain makes it very frustrating for solar users). If you don't like it don't use it.
    With RP2 or BC (don't give me the entire "we are talking about IC2 here" thing - nearly every successful server and LP uses these mods together) it costs next to no resources to build a compact 24/7 works-anywhere water mill farm producing 10+EU/t. Expand that and you can have 100EU/t at no cost except for a very large amount of lag.


    Out of interest why can't solars just check the surrounding blocks for non natural light sources (eg glowstone) on a block update and then assume it has direct sunlight if it has the right light level? Would save a LOT of CPU cycles.

  • And yet you failed to see MY point in the post: You CAN NOT STOP a renewable gen. from collecting energy due to how natural forces act upon it within the world! Those forces are constant, and do not stop simply for the sake of 'game balance'. To have an imperfection mechanic included with said machine would also imply that you'd have to include the same with fuel based generation, which leads us back to square one again, and defeating the purpose of this 'nerf'...


    No.. 'capping' said renewable energy production is exactly like I said: the natural forces of the world suddenly stop causing an effect upon them. THAT is exactly what you are suggesting...


    Stop trying to make it so grand like that im just, plain and simple, saying that machines over time will rust, will stop working properly, will become loose, and a whole other wills because not everything will last forever, especially if you don't bother give it maintenance every once in a while. FINE don't replace anything, but they need to have the player check on them every once in a while so they keep smoothing running and if they don't, then the player have to fix it.


    I care bananas what the elemental forces of the earth have to say in the matter, generators are machines and machines GET broken if they don't get maintained. They are built to last? Yes. They are build to last forever? NO, because its frigging impossible, the smallest thing could make the machine to get broken or to not worth entirely like they are supposed to.

  • Stop trying to make it so grand like that im just, plain and simple, saying that machines over time will rust, will stop working properly, will become loose, and a whole other wills because not everything will last forever, especially if you don't bother give it maintenance every once in a while. FINE don't replace anything, but they need to have the player check on them every once in a while so they keep smoothing running and if they don't, then the player have to fix it.


    I care bananas what the elemental forces of the earth have to say in the matter, generators are machines and machines GET broken if they don't get maintained. They are built to last? Yes. They are build to last forever? NO, because its frigging impossible, the smallest thing could make the machine to get broken or to not worth entirely like they are supposed to.

    a reminder that in industrial craft electric tools last forever and never break if generators and machines become subject to mechanical failure then so do electric tools good luck coding that. also i like magus's point that if green power suffers from mechanical failure then so does all other gens therefore releveling the playing field and making the nerf annoyingly pointless.


    really if i wanted to nerf green power i would go after rechargeable power storage and make it harder to store large amounts of power for use on demand that way active systems like geo, manned water, nuclear, and coal will have the edge over passive systems like solar, unmanned water, and wind

    true balance is impossible in video games the best one can hope for is to make it really hard to guess which of 2 choices are better.
    and remember kids "NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF JOKES!"

  • No maintenance generators are real pain... put solars, win, need power? Solars... ahem, if they required at least some friggin photovoltaic panel change from time to time, and other also something else.
    I for once use peat bogs and generators, or my favorite is forestry biodiesel or how you call it, it makes 20eu/t, and you can make it easily.

  • Quote

    Stop trying to make it so grand like that im just, plain and simple, saying that machines over time will rust, will stop working properly, will become loose, and a whole other wills because not everything will last forever, especially if you don't bother give it maintenance every once in a while. FINE don't replace anything, but they need to have the player check on them every once in a while so they keep smoothing running and if they don't, then the player have to fix it.


    I care bananas what the elemental forces of the earth have to say in the matter, generators are machines and machines GET broken if they don't get maintained. They are built to last? Yes. They are build to last forever? NO, because its frigging impossible, the smallest thing could make the machine to get broken or to not worth entirely like they are supposed to.

    So you'll keep rust and friction, but blatantly ignore conservation of energy... >.> Riiiggghhhttt....


    And passinglurker is right about IC tools and such. YOUR machines may not be immortal, but most of IC's machines and tools are. Hence why so many players use then, and hence the reason why people argue over the OPness of Solar energy generation, as EU storage is your only limiting factor after material cost.

    Would anyone like to try a Slowpoke Tail?! Only 1 Million Yen!


    Quote

    this isn't about arrogance or ego, I have a block that I put a lot of freaking work into


    Every Mod Author, in existence. And yet, you STILL say otherwise.

  • No maintenance generators are real pain... put solars, win, need power? Solars... ahem, if they required at least some friggin photovoltaic panel change from time to time, and other also something else.
    I for once use peat bogs and generators, or my favorite is forestry biodiesel or how you call it, it makes 20eu/t, and you can make it easily.

    oxymoronic much? how can batbox->solars->win=pain? clearly based off the ingredients ic2 solars are the older and more robust carbon and copper variety not the silicon type. really think about what i said about aiming for power storage solar flowers are rarely powerful enough to power a whole workshop on demand all by themselves so spammers rig up a big battery array to store the power till they need it (like in real life) so if you make storing large amounts or passing a certain amount of eu through wear out batboxs or something like that then gens that can pump power on demand will gain favor(nukes will need a buff though cause they are technically not on demand power)

    true balance is impossible in video games the best one can hope for is to make it really hard to guess which of 2 choices are better.
    and remember kids "NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF JOKES!"

  • Cool argument about nerfing the absolutely worst Generator in IC², it has the lowest efficiency of all (except unmanned Water) and the highest costs of all and still all the Noobs are using it. Whats wrong with you all? Most of us having Redpower (or even BC) installed, and with it, it's too easy to generate more maintenancefree Energy, than a large Solarpanelconstruction, AND STILL its used by you all, and you are still complaining about Solars are too OP!!! Just to remember you: IT'S THE F**KING WORST GENERATOR OF WHOLE IC²!!!


    You may heared me the shouting that out.

  • Cool argument about nerfing the absolutely worst Generator in IC², it has the lowest efficiency of all (except unmanned Water) and the highest costs of all and still all the Noobs are using it. Whats wrong with you all? Most of us having Redpower (or even BC) installed, and with it, it's too easy to generate more maintenancefree Energy, than a large Solarpanelconstruction, AND STILL its used by you all, and you are still complaining about Solars are too OP!!! Just to remember you: IT'S THE F**KING WORST GENERATOR OF WHOLE IC²!!!


    You may heared me the shouting that out.

    Forestry + BC + RP + IC + PowerConverters = Energy WIN!


    Biogas engine + milk (RP automatizated) + BC conductive\waterproof [for lava] pipes + Power converters Converter + IC wires = 5Eu/t.


    Got 256 engines powered by milk generating 1280 EU/t at server.
    And thats much cheaper than 2000+ solars right?

  • Forestry + BC + RP + IC + PowerConverters = Energy WIN!


    Biogas engine + milk (RP automatizated) + BC conductive\waterproof [for lava] pipes + Power converters Converter + IC wires = 5Eu/t.


    Got 256 engines powered by milk generating 1280 EU/t at server.
    And thats much cheaper than 2000+ solars right?

    Right.


    At least this is a good Engineeringsolution for someone, who's not interested in Lag.

  • OP's suggestion is absolutely ridiculous. The solar panels are useless when compared to anything else really. Imo nuclear>wind>water>geothermal(because lava runs out)>solar People should have a couple of generators to choose from which have their own good and bad sides. In addition some people with existing 2000+ solar panel plants wouldn't be happy about this as they would be next to useless. Let's go and nerf(not really) nuclear instead as you can make 9ish uranium cells from one uranium ore(8x by making isotope cells, at least 25% stay as isotope cells after a cycle, a few are consumed for breeding). That's friggin 70 million EU per uranium ore in a CASUC.

  • OP's suggestion is absolutely ridiculous. The solar panels are useless when compared to anything esle really. Imho nuclear>wind>water>geothermal(because lava runs out)>solar People should have a couple of generators to choose from which have their own good and bad sides. In addition some people with existing 2000+ solar panel plants wouldn't be happy about this as they would be next to useless. Let's go and nerf nuclear instead as you can make 9ish uranium cells from one uranium ore(8x by making isotope cells, at least 25% stay as isotope cells after a cycle, a few are consumed for breeding). That's friggin 70 million EU per uranium ore in a CASUC.

    actually lets not nerf nukes the level of power you are talking about requires resources, skill, and risk equal to how powerful it is (that and you can BREED 8 cells from 1 ore not craft 9 cells from 1 ore breeding is even riskier cause it requires you to almost overheat your reactor to make it worth it so don't go calling for nerfs on things you know nothing about) in fact lets not play kingmaker with the generators at all the adjustments are so small and the effects so great we should just leave generator balance to alblaka and stick to suggesting concepts and ideas. let the devs handle the hard numbers

    true balance is impossible in video games the best one can hope for is to make it really hard to guess which of 2 choices are better.
    and remember kids "NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF JOKES!"

  • As far as solars are concerned, they've already been nerfed to the point of uselessness for me. They're too expensive and output too little energy - all my power needs are met with a 180 EU/t wind farm.

    GENERATION (Pineapple + i): The first pineapple you see, copy it into your sig on any forum and add sqrt(-1) to the generation. Pineapple experiment.

  • Every generator needs maintenance, except solar wind and watermill, if there was just some mechanics that needs to fix replace something inside, not necessary fuel, but probably turbine for windmill, some coils for water and photovoltaics for solars.

    Solars are supposed to be maintenance free thats their perk. Who will make solars if you remove that? Might aswell remove solars from the game then.



    Iam really getting tired of ppl yelling solars are op i mean seriously look at the freaking cost. You pay for them being maintenance free. You dont pay for them being crappy.

  • Sooner or later all the generators will be nerfed until they cant generate more than 1000 eu a minecraft day. seriously stop with the "... IS OP!!!".
    Its just stupid.

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