[Suggestion] Lap-Energy-Storage

MatLaPatate · May 1st 2012

At first, please do not say "NO!" without reading it, maybe it's OP, maybe not, just talk about it ... this is a SUGGESTION, I do it in order to discuss and not because I want to see it in the next version of IC² ...
It's an beta-test Idea

So, my idea is to create a new way of energy storage, cheaper that MFSU/MFE for the same cost, but with using a lot of space more ...
It won't use diamond, but LapisBlock (as for Lappack) Glowstone Block (better than Glowstone Dust) and others ...
And the most important thing: it (the LESU or Lapis Energy Storage Unit) would be able to share energy with others LESU, i.e. when you rightclick on, you'll see one GUI, but the maximum energy storage would be the addition of all the LESU storage ... of course, each LESU would need to be connected on at least one face to another LESU for sharing the same GUI.

For example, if you make a 3*3*3 cube of LESU, you'll get a storage capacity of 27*Max-Energy stored by 1 LESU.
To have ouput, it would need a special LESU, crafted as the normal one but maybe with a transformer and the ouput would be only on the good face of THIS block.

With that, you could make a big area to store energy, cheaper than MFSU, but it would need a lot of space.

For Ouput/Input/Tier, I propose to create 2 level of it, one Tier II and one Tier III

Exemple of setting:

=Any source of energy, windmill or not.
=Basic LESU
=Ouput

Then, when right-clicking on of these LESU, you'll see appear a GUI with 18*150 000 (for example) =2 700 000 EU max and one slot to charge your lappack.

For repliers:
[Craft] For craft Idea (with the tier, output and input)
[Usage] For people thinking it's useful/totaly unuseful
[WantMorePrecision] For people who did not really understand
[Other] If you find an other reason to answer.

Sebra · May 1st 2012

Distributed energy storage?
Doubt it would be efficient.

MatLaPatate · May 1st 2012

I think there would be 2 main problem:
-People would use it as wiring (But we could make it a bit expensive in order to prevent it)
-If the Tier III one is cheaper than the MFSU, it would be an alternative to the MFE with a more little Energy storage, but too cheap ... That's why I suggest it would need something you can get only when having some Tier III machine ...
Maybe UU Matter ? or things like advanced circuit and Carbon plate.

[At first I spoke about the efficienty of this in the game, then Sebra precise he spoke about coding efficienty--> I edit the post]

Sebra, I don't know anything about code so ...

Sebra · May 1st 2012

I mean coding efficiency, not usage. Having summarized output from distributed storage is too buggy and laggy imho.

Norisak · May 1st 2012

I don't think you could have a charge and discharge slot in it, as that could cause some problems when they merge. So it would only have a display for energy value. I also suggest this working with teleporters, so you can do long teleports that need more energy than whatever you can achieve with MFSU's.

GregoriusT · May 1st 2012

Whats about making the Controlblock the only thing which accepts and outputs EU? (like a normal Storageblock but with external upgrades)

This way you can place ONLY ONE Controlblock to every LESU-Building to prevent usage as Cable, and LESUnits CANNOT be placed adjacently between TWO diffrent LESU-Buildings to prevent connecting two LESU-Buildings together.

If its coded properly then it's extreme efficient and doesnt lags at all (even less than a MFSU-Chain!)

Codeexplaining Part:
First you need to place the Controlblock OR a few LESU-Blocks

If a LESU-Block is tryed to be placed adjacent to another one, then it scans all other adjacent LESU-blocks (and their adjacent counterparts), until it finds ONE Controlblock or NO Controlblock (TWO or more, are forbidden and the placement of the LESU-Block will be prevented in the first place), if the Controlblock was found, then it updates (count+1) the Number of LESU-units in the Controlblock, else it just does nothing and just gets placed.

If a Controlblock is tryed to be placed adjacent to a LESUnit, then it scans all other LESU-Blocks, to determine the count and to check, if theres already a Controlblock, if so then it refuses to be placed, otherwise you have just succesfully placed the Controlblock

If a LESUnit gets destroyed (Stevepunch/Wrench/TNT/Creeper etc.), then it will update the Controlblock to redetermine the amount of LESU one tick after it was destroyed.

Edit: Oh i forgot to say +1.

MatLaPatate · May 1st 2012

Or, in order to reduce lag, what about making bigger blocks (what a strange idea in minecraft! make blocks of 2*2*2 or more!) got from craft.
(I do not find it's a good idea, but if the lag is very important ...)

Edit:

Quote from Norisak

I don't think you could have a charge and discharge slot in it, as that could cause some problems when they merge. So it would only have a display for energy value. I also suggest this working with teleporters, so you can do long teleports that need more energy than whatever you can achieve with MFSU's.

Hmmm ... seems to be interesting on that point, but in this case, teleporting someone on huge distance could create lag no ?

GregoriusT · May 1st 2012

Quote from MatLaPatate

Or, in order to reduce lag, what about making bigger blocks (what a strange idea in minecraft! make blocks of 2*2*2 or more!) got from craft.
(I do not find it's a good idea, but if the lag is very important ...)

Edit:

Hmmm ... seems to be interesting on that point, but in this case, teleporting someone on huge distance could create lag no ?

Uhhmmm i just explained a way to make it MUCH LESS laggy (with infinite expansionpotential) than a MFSU-Chain and you are coming with 2x2x2-Blocks????

MatLaPatate · May 1st 2012

I said it for Sebra, not for you.
That was: "At worst, we could ..."

Anyway, what about recipes ?
The difficulties is to find something cheaper than MFE/MFSU depending on the Tier, but that we could get only after having machines of these Tier ...

Sebra · May 1st 2012

I do not program for MC, but see many problems considering placing/destroying/moving_by_piston_or_frame when in use.

Big blocks like in Railcraft would not help probably.

Expandable EU storage is always wanted of course. I think it should not show current charge stored, only percentage value. But if search for connected blocks will be on each charge/discharge it can be laggy, else buggy. Also for balance purposes some EU loss needed.

MatLaPatate · May 1st 2012

Piston/frame etc ... would probably not cause a big lag (or I don't see why), but energy would be wasted if a LESU is moved (if 1 out of 20 is moved, 5% of the energy would be deleted)
For losses, it could cause huge lag, because of massive wiring between 1-2-3-4-5-6 LESU ...
I think a lot of lapisblock/glowstone/others component could be a good way to prevent Wiring usage ...
Maybe (If we want it could ONLY store and not, for example, store energy and wire you machine) it could have a percentage of losses, as for Electrolyzer.

GregoriusT · May 1st 2012

Quote from Sebra

I do not program for MC, but see many problems considering placing/destroying/moving_by_piston_or_frame when in use.

No Problems there, Blockupdates will be recognised by adjacent LESUnits.

Quote from Sebra

Big blocks like in Railcraft would not help probably.

NOOOOO!!! They are coded with a Timer! That lags like hell! (with very large amounts of LESU)

Quote from Sebra

Expandable EU storage is always wanted of course. I think it should not show current charge stored, only percentage value. But if search for connected blocks will be on each charge/discharge it can be laggy, else buggy. Also for balance purposes some EU loss needed.

You do know the Updateprincipe in Minecraft? Only the Controlblock is charged, not the LESU's, the LESU are only upgrading the maximum Storage of the Controlblock itself.

MatLaPatate · May 1st 2012

Hmmm ...
Sounds good, but it means that for one ControlBlock you could only use 6 LESU ... (Or I misunderstand what you mean, maybe I'm wrong here ^^)

If you mean that by ControlBlock would solve (in my mind) all our problem:
Each LESU-Building has 1 Output, 1 Input etc ...
So, the ControlBlocks is a storage Units, but its storage capacity is upgraded by LESU.
With that, no means to use LESU in wiring (But 1 output/1input can be boring, and give strange shapes to your LESU Buildings)
And you were right, no lag

GregoriusT · May 1st 2012

Quote from MatLaPatate

Hmmm ...
Sounds good, but it means that for one ControlBlock you could only use 6 LESU ... (Or I misunderstand what you mean, maybe I'm wrong here ^^)

If you mean that by ControlBlock would solve (in my mind) all our problem:
Each LESU-Building has 1 Output, 1 Input etc ...
So, the ControlBlocks is a storage Units, but its storage capacity is upgraded by LESU.
With that, no means to use LESU in wiring (But 1 output/1input can be boring, and give strange shapes to your LESU Buildings)
And you were right, no lag

Display More

why only six? All the LESU which are adjacent to LESU which are adjacent to LESU ...potential infinite loop... which are adjacent to the Controlblock are counted. So you can build this:

IN

OUT

or this:

OUT
IN

:Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Tesla Coil: :Tesla Coil: :Tesla Coil:

All shapes are possible!!!

passinglurker · May 1st 2012

so basically you want an Electrolyzer

GregoriusT · May 1st 2012

Quote from passinglurker

so basically you want an Electrolyzer

He wants a very large energystoring Block, which seems more realistic than a MFSU.

TSlavo · May 1st 2012

I give this a +1

It's much like building a battery around components like you see in modern electronics these days. Getting max energy for the amount of space you have to spare.

passinglurker · May 1st 2012

Quote from GregoriusT

He wants a very large energystoring Block, which seems more realistic than a MFSU.

ok so an Electrolyzer that can chain to other Electrolyzers

Lor · May 2nd 2012

I'm liking the idea of the Electrolyzer model, but just to throw out another idea, (at the risk of becoming known as the 'add to GUI guy ')

What about enabling the "Energy Storage Upgrade" to be added to Existing storage-blocks? Would enable an additional 64k of storage with a single stack if I remember correctly.

The idea of energy blanks looking more realistic, and the algorithm of the control block (seems like the memory blocks in screenshots) is very appealing, but I wonder if keeping it within existing items would be better and/or more likely to be implemented.

Less item ids, less blocks, etc.

Thoughts?

Keymaster89 · May 2nd 2012

I like the idea: +1
Start trying to add some craft recipies, i suggest mine:

Storage block:

Where are 3xinsulate iron cable, are re-batteries and are a lapp block.
Any of this units hold 100.000 EU (1/6 of MFE also like a energy crystal but not so easy to use so not that op)

Control block tier II:

Where are 2x insulated gold cable, are machine block and are Lapp block.
Input/output MV like MFE does. Have a minium internal storage, due to the lapp block of 40.000 EU

Control block tier III:

Where are MV transformer.
Input/output HV like MFSU does. Have a minium internal storage, due to the energy crystal, of 100.000 EU.
Due to the advanced machine, it also add the necessity to have a macerator and a compressor, unlike the other two...

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