[Discoussion] The new UU Matter Recipes and how expensive Items should be compared to each other

1. All ores should have a cost proportional to how often they can be encountered (take a world and do a simple MCEdit analysis to find it out), the most common of them costing 8 UUM liters.
2. Iridium recipe should be deleted - iridium can perfectly be produced from the iridium ore.
3. All mob loot (and osmium dust) should be buffed to use 10x more matter.
4. All fairly common materials (that is, all others except cobblestone) should take 4-8 liters to produce at your choice.
5. Cobble recipe can be deleted since you have an electric rock breaker.
P.S. I've read your post twice and understood nothing. How am I now supposed to create items out of scrap and EU?

Quote from alexdelphi

I've read your post twice and understood nothing. How am I now supposed to create items out of scrap and EU?

The mass fab now produces Liquid UU-Matter, it is 10 million eu without scrap, and 1.66 million eu with scrap per bucket of UU. You move the liquid uu into a Replicator (I think), give the replicator a pattern, and energy, it will then take the liquid uu and begin assembling the item. To get patterns I believe you need to have one of the items you want to replicate, and put it in a scanner. Someone please correct me if I am mistaken with any of this.

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To get patterns I believe you need to have one of the items you want to replicate, and put it in a scanner.

This would be hard since iridium can only obtained by UUM (correct me if I'm wrong :p).

BTT:
Since only Diamond and Iridium matters for me and the prices are equal to the 'vanilla' (7 UUM = 1 Iridium Ore | 9 UUM = 1 Diamond) i'm fine with that

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We need better Values

Define 'better'? More balanced in what point?

Ok, here is the thing.

It doesn't really matter how far you tweak, greatly increase or decrease the cost of UUM.
As long i can drive a massfab with non-maintenance-energy it's only a matter of time (AFK-Time) on my server till i get what i want.

Greg, what will happen with your matterfab? Will you remove it?

Whatever the end values will be, make sure it'll be possible to configure each one separately from conf file (and to turn them off)
Stuff needing pattern means you can't just make blaze rods if you haven't fed any to some of the new machines, right? Sort of like old EE2 system. If so then it's great

As for prices, I'd say it HIGHLY depends on how easy it will be to get EU in the new IC2. I'd say figure out how much energy on average one can produce per chunk of materials with half-decent nuke setup (and other fuel sources if applicable) and go from there.

In general I'd say price in UU should depend more on actual usage of the material than on rarity. Yeah, easy to say, hard to implement Perhaps get a few people to analyze their maps and count the amount of materials they've spent? Or better, build in a logging mechanism into IC2 that would do it automatically. Turned off by default, when turned on it generates a log file as one plays and perhaps even submits it to somewhere. Yes, I understand that most people that use IC2 also use other mods so the amount of materials will vary wildly, not to mention differences between server vs SSP but given enough time it should give pretty good idea. Of course that would mean the UU prices will be changing later down the line but I don't think that would be too big of an issue.

Wait, if the new UUM uses both a fabricator and blueprint-based assembler, can't you balance the cost of things like grass, lapis, and even diamond with relatively little UUM but expensive to craft and hard to find blueprints and energy-demanding assembling while making the metals (iridium included) be based on larger quantities of UUM?

from the in-game logic,it at least just to represent the difference between materials that are complicated, having complex chemical structure and energetic molecular bonds (grass, logs, rubber, gunpowder) the materials that are heavy (stone, obsidian, gravel) and the various mixes (Diamond being extremely complicated, iridium being extremely heavy, coal being slightly heavy but very complicated, clay being slightly complicated and a bit heavy, etc)

Gameplay-wise, this also follows a progression: once you start making UUM, you can make things that require small amounts of liquid, have easy-to-get templates, and easy assembly (things like stone, sand, dirt), you can then get more complicated blueprints (giving you things like clay, flint, glass, grass, logs, rubber, water), get even more UUM and some blueprints (getting you obsidian, copper, tin), some more blueprints (for coal, redstone, lava [needs to require a lot of energy to assemble]), a lot more UUM (for iron, gold) even more complex blueprint for diamond (even in a vanilla world, if you get a fortune 3 pickaxe, after a while you can get enough diamonds to last for a lifetime), and a truly ludicrous amounts of UUM to get iridium.

(this is, of course, assuming blueprints have to be found and further crafted to be used in an assembler, assuming it's a machine that require blueprints, energy, and liquid UUM to craft items)

I'd rather it be based off chemical composition, but some things in Minecraft don't have straight forward, realistic elemental counterparts. And in some cases, rare materials would have the same chemical rarity as common materials (see diamonds, to coal, and wood, for example)...

Quote from SpwnX

@above : That would be cool.
For example, if you analyze GT sheldonite, it would give ya the blueprints for Platinum, Iridium, Osmium, Nickel and Sulfur.
Analyze some stuff that theorically contain a certain element to obtain the blueprint for it.

I'd imagine that heavy elements (such as Iridium and even Uranium) would require substantial UUM to fabricate...

Greg does make an interesting point about how diamonds would require more EU, but less UUM since they are Carbon-based...

I do like the idea of creating a system of atomic research to analyze and interpret the structure of matter in a Minecraft world. For example, in order to fabricate Diamonds, you'd either need to have found a diamond, or an emerald, or something else with a 'Crystal Lattice' structure in order to understand how to assemble Carbon together in that fashion. Replicating and Understanding Carbon would be easy, as you would sacrifice coal, or wood, or even Sugarcane into a Replicator or Analysis machine to be broken down and weighed in terms of content. (Actually, the scientific machine that does this in real life is, afaik, called a Mass Spectrometer. They are around $100k to $500k USD in cost, but are very useful in scientific research).

This could be used as an interesting research mechanic in order to break down and understand matter, from which you could then reforge or replicate later with EU and UUM. That way, some elements like Hydrogen and Oxygen could be easy to research, but getting to their isotope counterparts like Deuterium and Tritium would require 'more knowledge' of how isotopes and nuclear decay/reactions at place. Thus, in some aspects the 'advance' element would be gated by the research system, as you would lack the understanding of what those elements are, how their atomic aspects function towards their stability, and how to properly take advantage of them..

(Which, in a philosophical sense, makes plenty of sense since 'pitchblende' has been on the Earth for as long as there has been an Earth, but it was never taken advantage of until the last century due to atomic physics...)