=(Un)Offical Technic Pack Discussion Thread=

  • Sorry... accidetanlly killed your post ^^' Can't restore it - Alb
    Lol I made a backup :)


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    User Shakey2: "Sorry but could you please explain to me what is illegal about technic pack? The pack only makes it easier to install all those mods without a bunch of troubleshooting, the guy gives credit to all the mod owners of the mods in the pack. The pack does not edit any class files in any of the mods. Notice the IC2 creators could have easily done what you did yet they chose not to.


    So please explain to me why exactly it is illegal; Do not use shallow arguments, explain in great detail exactly why, backing up all of your arguments."
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    User ultimate_omega: " Quoted from "shakey2"
    "Sorry but could you please explain to me what is illegal about technic pack? The pack only makes it easier to install all those mods without a bunch of troubleshooting, the guy gives credit to all the mod owners of the mods in the pack. The pack does not edit any class files in any of the mods. Notice the IC2 creators could have easily done what you did yet they chose not to."


    So please explain to me why exactly it is illegal; Do not use shallow arguments, explain in great detail exactly why, backing up all of your arguments."
    AFAIK, at the Technic's inception, they didn't ask for the modder's permission (or the modder in question refused, and they still did anyways) to include the mod in question in the pack, while yes, they do credit the creators, they did make the wrong move about essentially "stealing" the mod.


    Unfortunately, I can't easily back this up as I am working off of what I have heard about this whole thing from other users on the forums.
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    User HeadHunter67 : =Quoted from "shakey2"=
    "So please explain to me why exactly it is illegal; Do not use shallow arguments, explain in great detail exactly why, backing up all of your arguments."


    When someone uses your work without your permission (and in some cases, against your express refusal), giving credit alone does not suffice. You will notice that they do not have a thread on the Minecraft Forum, because they'd be banned outright for misappropriating other people's intellectual property.


    One of the things they are doing is stealing traffic from the sites of the mod developers. If you've ever taken a look at their site, they openly ridicule many of the developers whose work they include. Does that sound like something that's done for the good of anyone but themselves? The only people who need Technic are people who are too stupid to get the mods to work together on their own - annd those selfsame idiots are eating out of the palms of their hands. They'll believe the propaganda the Technic guys tell them, because if they can't understand how to install a mod, they sure aren't going to grasp the finer points of a copyright or IP laws.


    Eloraam, for example, explicitly prohibits distribution of her mod by any other source - it's right in her license. Is that a clear enough example for you?
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    User RichardG: They are stealing our mods, our traffic, our adfly/adcraft links, our donations, our support forums, our IRC channels, our effort, everything. I did that to try to prevent the mod from being bundled with and installed alongside Technic, and to discourage people from using the pack.
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    User KakerMix: =Quoted from "RichardG"=
    "They are stealing our mods, our traffic, our adfly/adcraft links, our donations, our support forums, our IRC channels, our effort, everything. I did that to try to prevent the mod from being bundled with and installed alongside Technic, and to discourage people from using the pack."
    Hello I am here!
    First a correction:
    We do not take any donations for Technic. In fact, the only thing you will ever find is us asking people to donate to the modders themselves.
    'Stealing' your traffic? IRC channels? Support forums? Effort?
    I like how nobody bothers to talk, or hell, even ask us at all.
    The super-ironic thing is all you guys have to go on is the MC Forums where we don't have a presence. Nobody knows that we are friends with Eloraam, or that Ablaka was the first to give us permission, or that Xenophobe has always been thankful for us, or that Technic and the Yogscast is directly responsible for Thaumcraft being created.
    I 'get' that people see us ripping on FlowerChild and take that as all we do, but that isn't my problem. FlowerChild is bad for the community and the sooner people like him get overshadowed with people doing it right (Alblaka, Eloraam, Xenophobe, Azanor) the better off we will be.
    Its fine though, modders getting more people using their mods, outpouring of donations and lots of praise. Its a terrible thing I know :(
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    User CovertJaguar :
    =Quoted from "KakerMix"=


    "I like how nobody bothers to talk, or hell, even ask us at all."



    You mean like how you asked me if you could include Railcraft in the pack? Oh wait, that's right you didn't. First I heard of it was when a user pointed it out to me, and from what I can tell it had been in the pack for several versions already. Maybe the people you listed really did give you permission, but I sure as hell know I didn't.


    Still waiting for the outpouring donations too. All I've gotten so far is clueless Technic users looking for support.
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    User HeadHunter67:


    =Quoted from "KakerMix"=
    "Nobody knows that we are friends with Eloraam, or that Ablaka was the first to give us permission, or that Xenophobe has always been thankful for us, or that Technic and the Yogscast is directly responsible for Thaumcraft being created.
    I 'get' that people see us ripping on FlowerChild and take that as all we do, but that isn't my problem. FlowerChild is bad for the community and the sooner people like him get overshadowed with people doing it right (Alblaka, Eloraam, Xenophobe, Azanor) the better off we will be."


    So, that said, would you care to explain why you choose to showcase fan artthat is derogatory toward Eloraam? And the childish comments you not only permit, but endorse?


    Don't mistake Eloraam's tolerance of you for "friendship" any more than I do. She's capable of grace, tact, and class - qualities I see missing from your site and utterly absent in the "credits" of your mod pack.
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    I5 2500K | 4GB Cosair Vengence | Radeon 6850 | Rosewill 600w PSU | GigaByte Z68MA | CM Elite 311 | Dell 19" 720p (upgrading soon!)| Hitachi 500 GB 7200 HDD | LG 24X |Windows 7 (Genuine!)
    Alblaka in a Lightning Rod suggestion thread...[/size]

  • User KakerMix :
    Woah hey now here is some hate. This isn't really fair to RichardG and his thread, but sure lets chat.


    First off CovertJaguar:
    We don't ask permission, we still don't. The permission has been given to us through various means, usually after people find out that we aren't assholes and that we truly and honestly love the mods and appreciate the creators. The reason we don't bother saying anything about it (usually) is because we don't want to cause drama between the modders themselves if we can help it.


    To HeadHunter67:
    You do not speak for Eloraam. You may have an idea on what she is like but you are grossly mistaken in this instance. She loves that picture, and you are stretching far to try to frame that as derogatory toward Eloraam. She, unfortunately, has a sense of humor.
    Our 'site' isn't about grace, tact or class, I don't know why you'd come in all smug and try to point that out to us.

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    User CovertJaguar :
    =Quoted from "KakerMix"=
    "Woah hey now here is some hate. This isn't really fair to RichardG and his thread, but sure lets chat.


    First off CovertJaguar:
    We don't ask permission, we still don't. The permission has been given to us through various means, usually after people find out that we aren't assholes and that we truly and honestly love the mods and appreciate the creators. The reason we don't bother saying anything about it (usually) is because we don't want to cause drama between the modders themselves if we can help it. "



    Doesn't change the fact that you don't and never had permission to include Railcraft. And aren't likely to get it either, since you didn't bother to ask first.
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    User HeadHunter67 :


    =Quoted from "KakerMix"=
    "We don't ask permission, we still don't. The permission has been given to us through various means, usually after people find out that we aren't assholes"


    So, you admit to using others' work without permission, and then claim you're not assholes? Okay. If you say so.


    =Quoted=
    "She loves that picture, and you are stretching far to try to frame that as derogatory toward Eloraam. She, unfortunately, has a sense of humor.
    Our 'site' isn't about grace, tact or class, I don't know why you'd come in all smug and try to point that out to us."


    And I'm sure that the more idiotic of your followers feel the same way? Or do they think that it's a dig on her and that's how they feel too? Because the remarks in the comments put lie to your words.


    And if you're not about grace, tact, or class, then I don't see why you have an issue with me calling it like I see it. don't like the taste of your own medicine?
    And, for the record, I didn't "come in"... I was already here.

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    User Cadde :
    Copyright law is quite clear on the subject of "redistributing other peoples work without explicit given permission to do so"
    If you haven't received written permission to redistribute other peoples work then you are NOT allowed to do so. It doesn't matter if you send the author a million dollars as compensation. You are still not permitted to redistribute without consent!


    Anyone who owns the copyrights on software can chose to file a claim. That means, if you (mr technic pack person) is living in any of the countries where copyright can be enforced and can be linked to a person (for instance, if you live in France then finding out who you are is EASY because of the new laws they have implemented) then YOU can be forced to pay compensation to the owner of the copyrights. Considering the number of mods you have in Technic pack that you don't have permission for redstributing that could be a years worth in salary.
    So maybe you should ease up a little and remove all the mods you don't have permission to redistribute before someone takes action and then it's all going to go downhill for you.


    Don't believe me? Google some and find out that it has happened before for far lesser infractions on copyrights and those people have been fined up to $300,000 in court.


    I don't care how "nice a person" you are, if you openly admit to shitting at other peoples rights to their own works then you are nothing more than a failure...


    Don't get me wrong, i think all MC mods should be open source and free to distribute (non commercially) modified or not. But if a developer of mod XYZ wishes for his work to stay under his control then you respect his wishes or you face the consequences of your actions.


    EDIT:


    One more thing, if Eloraam, Alblaka or any of the other modders you say have given you permission to redistribute their work wants to revoke that permission they can do so whenever they feel like it. Tread lightly or they will do just that.


    And did you know that even if the copyright holder doesn't want to hunt you down you are still breaking other laws that anyone can charge you for.
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    User KakerMix:
    Covertjaguar I'm not going to try to convince you we're great people or whatever. I don't need your respect to tell people your Railcraft mod is excellent, or link them to it, or encourage them to use the things you've created. I'm sorry you get more support questions though. :/
    HeadHunter67 and Cadde: Screaming about things you don't understand and speaking for people you don't know. I'll take the personal insults toward me and others. Heck, I'll even accept the 'technic propoganda' (lol) that we spread around. What I won't accept though is the hollow threats made on the behalf of people you don't speak for. I'll talk directly to them without you being involved, just like I do now. I'd rather have everyone's permission but you two are the exact reason why I have a hard time giving this community a chance, your types make it absolutely toxic to everyone.
    I didn't have permission in the first place and yet here we are, more legit than it started out as.

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    User Vroomfonder :
    From here:
    http://www.minecraft.net/terms


    "Do not distribute anything we've made. This includes, but not limited to, the client or the server software for the game. This also includes modified versions of anything we've made."



    "If you've bought the game, you may play around with it and modify it. We'd appreciate it if you didn't use this for griefing, though, and remember not to distribute the changes."



    So, stop being silly. Have fun and be amazed that any of this stuff works together at all.
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    User FnordMan :
    =Quoted from "KakerMix"=
    "I'd rather have everyone's permission but you two are the exact reason why I have a hard time giving this community a chance, your types make it absolutely toxic to everyone.
    I didn't have permission in the first place and yet here we are, more legit than it started out as."


    Gee, I wonder why that is... Could it that your outright *STEALING* their work without their permission? And you wonder why you have trouble getting permission? Wow, talk about utterly stupid.
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    I5 2500K | 4GB Cosair Vengence | Radeon 6850 | Rosewill 600w PSU | GigaByte Z68MA | CM Elite 311 | Dell 19" 720p (upgrading soon!)| Hitachi 500 GB 7200 HDD | LG 24X |Windows 7 (Genuine!)
    Alblaka in a Lightning Rod suggestion thread...[/size]

  • I fail to see how this thread serves any "good" purpose?


    It is clear (to me at least) that the maintainers of the Technic pack is breaking copyright law and they are being asshats about it too.
    Then they go and argue LAW without understanding law at it's most basic level.
    Then they resume their arrogant and disrespectful ways.


    Then they want to tell us "They are really nice guys"...
    Yeah, they might be nice guys. As long as they get what they want and nobody defies them.


    Sorry, that just doesn't cut it in the real world.
    Please spare us anything that has anything to do with Technic pack. And please allow ALL to ridicule any users using Technic pack. They need to be informed of just how wrong they are by using that pack.


    Disclaimer:


    I am totally and utterly Christmas eve drunk, anything i post today might be full of spelling errors and typos and ramblings and other hilarity.

  • Had a friend who used technic pack... So I looked into it. The next day during band I cussed him out for it. There is a saying that goes like this; "possesion is 90% of the law," I believe the technic pack should be routed out, however on Mojang's TOS I didn't see any real clarification on whether or not a modders work is protected by their copyright, would be cool if i could get some clearance on that.

    Quote

    That's a rather cool idea, but a lone tree is suspicious, better plant some more. So really... forget about solar-flowers, solar-trees are the next generation :P

  • I fail to see how this thread serves any "good" purpose?


    I honestly didn't think it would be much use myself, but out of respect to RichardG, I decided that if the parties want to continue the argument than they can do it here. Use it or not, but I have the arguments written here.

    I5 2500K | 4GB Cosair Vengence | Radeon 6850 | Rosewill 600w PSU | GigaByte Z68MA | CM Elite 311 | Dell 19" 720p (upgrading soon!)| Hitachi 500 GB 7200 HDD | LG 24X |Windows 7 (Genuine!)
    Alblaka in a Lightning Rod suggestion thread...[/size]

  • Reading the Minecraft ToS clearly puts the entire modding community on very shaky ground. It clearly states not to distribute anything they have made or to distribute modified versions of anything they have made. The entire modding community requires this. I hope the new API Jeb is working on clears this up, and hopefully Mojang will adopt a proper licensing agreement since even this is a matter of licensing and not of copyright.


    A couple of fun facts:


    Copyright infringement is not theft. This has been decided by several courts and has never been refuted.
    Copyright infringement in all but very rare cases is a civil matter, and as a result the only guaranteed rewards for a won case are provable losses/damages.

  • Reading the Minecraft ToS clearly puts the entire modding community on very shaky ground. It clearly states not to distribute anything they have made or to distribute modified versions of anything they have made. The entire modding community requires this. I hope the new API Jeb is working on clears this up, and hopefully Mojang will adopt a proper licensing agreement since even this is a matter of licensing and not of copyright.


    A couple of fun facts:


    Copyright infringement is not theft. This has been decided by several courts and has never been refuted.
    Copyright infringement in all but very rare cases is a civil matter, and as a result the only guaranteed rewards for a won case are provable losses/damages.


    Absolutely, every time a modder releases a base class mod (that includes me too btw) he is also redistributing part of the minecraft code. That is against the copyright that comes with MineCraft.
    ModLoader, ModLoaderMP and Forge are all base class "mods".


    Now, where i live (Sweden) you are not allowed to obtain copyrighted materials without permission either. This applies to many other countries as well. Simply downloading ModLoader, ModLoaderMP and Forge is a violation of the copyright and I (and many others) can be charged for that just the same as the people who distributed the minecraft base class modifications. Notch lives in Sweden too and he knows just too well what piracy is (Piratebay) and knows about the laws on copyright.
    Distributing and/or obtaining parts of or the entirety of "minecraft.jar" from any other source than minecraft.net is a violation of the copyright. Doesn't matter if it's 1% original MC code and 99% your own code.


    Now, why should Notch even care if we thumb a little on the copyrights to make mods possible which gives him more sales and a greater community? (which is a HUGE advertisement machine running 24/7)
    Well, on one hand he doesn't care that much, he is aware of the benefits he receives from the modding community. It has sped up the rate of success for Minecraft in ways he can't even begin to imagine. I would dare say, without mods for MC, the game would still be as popular as it was about 2 years ago.
    Howver, on the other hand he does care a lot about the copyright...


    The thing about java code is that it is easily reverse engineered since it's in the most basic way just a set of compiled instructions that can be decompiled very easily. Hence why Notch has to obfuscate the code.
    The people maintaining MCP has done an awesome job (I have done a very small part of it) de-obfuscating the code which has helped countless modders make awesome mods. The thing about this though is that, once you have ONE base class file you can de-compile it and read it as code. Albeit in the form "xx.yy.zzz()" instead of "Block.blockID.ShiftedIndex()" as an example. MCP (Minecraft Coder Pack) will turn all the "xx.yy.zzz()" type code into human readable code.


    Now, if a modder releases something very important to the way MC works, like the cave generation code, then a competitor to Mojang and Minecraft can "steal" this code and implement it in his own game with a few changes (to claim it is his code) and be one step closer to making a minecraft clone that is as good or better than minecraft. So every base class that gets in the hands of another developer is equal to you giving your secret "super awesome burger sauce recipe" to the competing restaurant across the street.
    Obviously, the competing developer can spare the money to buy MC and as such will gain access to the entire code base so this is quite far fetched. But it still is copyright violation to redistribute and receive copyrighted material without permission.
    It doesn't matter that you can get a complete copy of minecraft and minecraft server anywhere on the internet easily without owning the game and are able to play it cracked with ALL the features.
    It doesn't matter if you already own the game, downloading it or parts of it from any other source than minecraft.net is a violation of the copyright.


    ...


    So now we get to the complicated part... To make a mod in minecraft we pretty much have to make a base class modification somewhere. None of BuildCraft, Industrial Craft or RedPower etc etc would be possible without ModLoader, ModLoaderMP and Forge providing hooks into the minecraft code... Well, they would be possible but would take twice the work to maintain and would most likely NOT be compatible with each other.
    So we cannot get away from modifying and releasing Minecraft base classes to make our mods.


    But besides the fact we need Forge etc to make base clean (that is, not alter the base classes) and allow these mods to run in tandem without clashing into each other at the base code... IC2, BC and RP2 are ALL originals in that the author can issue his own copyright on his work. The code and the files ONLY belong to the developer in question that made them. That is:


    • SpaceToad and his developers for Buildcraft.
    • Eloraam for Red Power.
    • Alblaka and his developers for Industrial Craft.


    They are in the same position as Notch, they CAN make money from donations and adf.ly links. People downloading their mods from other sources are very unlikely to donate or use the "appropriate" adf.ly links.
    While i personally think using adfly links is quite the double morale and a complete waste of time and only serves to make the process of downloading the mods more painful i also see why they want to do it. They want something in return for spending countless hours making things that serve the community as a whole rather than themselves. They are doing things they don't necessarily want to make us happy.


    I will NEVER use any adfly links or likewise. I will never accept ANY donations for my modding work. I make all code because i want to, not because i have to.
    While i appreciate the odd "Thank you" here and there i would never demand anything from anyone when making mods.


    For me sharing is caring!


    But if my only source of real life income would come from modding then my attitude would change pretty quick. Notch has no other source of income than Minecraft. As such, should minecraft die out from competition or otherwise then it is the same thing as losing your job.
    However, i make money off coding but i only make money off coding on demand. Someone needs some code that i am not interested in making for free and as such they ask me to make it and i get paid.
    I build and repair computers from time to time. As much as i love building a new computer i also hate dealing with all the crap that comes along with it when I'm not the one who is going to be using it. On countless occasions i have DECLINED fixing a certain computer even if i would get paid €60 to do so because it would just bee too much work doing it.


    If however i feel like this would benefit me and thus feel motivated in doing some coding for FUN then i share freely. And i stand fast to my "sharing is caring" motto.
    Anyone is free to "steal" my stuff, they are only really stealing from themselves because it doesn't belong to anyone. So if the "Technic pack" wants to use my OreVeins mod they can do so freely. They don't need my permission, if they ask i will not tell them to sod off.
    But i still will not accept their attitudes, they could be much nicer about it but they openly shit on the developers who have other wishes.


    That just doesn't fly with me. As such i will call them names and point out how wrong they are ad infinitum until they fix their bad ways.

  • Very nice reply, and I am somewhat surprised. The vast majority of people, some of them well known, have absolutely no idea of their position. The very same arguments they use can be used against them, and they have no idea.


    I would like to point out a big misconception though. I am pretty sure I know the motivations of the creators of the two largest mod packs pretty well. The initial and primary motivations of both packs (Yogbox and Technic) is to create a minecraft "world" that contains features (mods) that are interesting to them personally, and to make the installation and compatibility as easy as possible.


    Just as the modders were addressing what they felt were holes in their Minecraft experience so have the mod pack authors reacted. Ease of installation and compatibility are the issues being addressed by the mod packs and they are just as important to the modders as the mods are to Minecraft. These issues have been somewhat addressed, but they are not completely resolved. This is why the mod packs exist and why they will continue to exist until the issues are addressed.


    I feel that the whole situation has been blown completely out of proportion, and that the mod makers that are holding a hard line are doing themselves a disservice for no real benefit.


  • "blown out of proportion"? Not really, the Tecnic pack person basically has admitted to outright stealing of other's work without permission. This is utterly wrong in more ways than one and should be stopped. Doesn't matter what their motivations are.


  • "blown out of proportion"? Not really, the Tecnic pack person basically has admitted to outright stealing of other's work without permission. This is utterly wrong in more ways than one and should be stopped. Doesn't matter what their motivations are.

    Is that better or worse than the modders "stealing" from Mojang and not admitting it? It is like you read only part of the above, or only picked out the part you felt comfortable with. You could even go as far to say that the mod packs are infringing less because they are not taking the mods as their own unlike the modders themselves.

  • I think the technic pack should be taken down because they completely circumvent the adfly links that Spacetoad and Eloraam use for their mods. I hate the adfly, but I like the mods so much I'm willing to put up with it.

  • I think the technic pack should be taken down because they completely circumvent the adfly links that Spacetoad and Eloraam use for their mods. I hate the adfly, but I like the mods so much I'm willing to put up with it.

    You do realize that there is software out there that lets the user completely circumvent ad.fly and similar services? This software provides absolutely nothing to the community and are in fact far more damaging. Ad.fly and the like are horrible methods of income not to mention rude, potentially distructive, and in my opinion ripping the modders off. By clicking an ad.fly link the average user is going to think they have done their part, and paid their fair share.


    If you really would like to support the mod makers simply donating $1 would provide far more income than the average number of clicks you might generate through the interstitial adds. That $1 covers 250 clicks. I personally have never come even close to 250 downloads of any single mod. Now imagine that a single mod has 30,000 users, and each one of those users donated $1. See my point?


    Don't support ad.fly, Donate, and see the service that the mod packs bring to the table.

  • I think there is likely no good solution; but maybe even the adfly links are technically worse than distributing for free since there's an argument that profit might be being made from distributing someone else's copyrighted material (which you have to distribute in order to inter-operate with it... I suppose you technically could distribute an installer and a patch, but already the patch would need updated functions, not just new ones, leading you right back to where we are now).


    What would be good, and ethical if possibly not legal, would be to better connect with the community. A choice of base level (adfly/whatever there is now) or donating a little to receive recognition in little but powerfully enabling ways. Those who had donated would have access to the (weekly/nightly) alpha builds that compiled, direct download links, and a proportional 'vote' to distribute among mod-creator endorsed ideas for what to work on next with the mod. (It would be a guideline, not something set in stone; programming is, like all creative things, an art.)

  • Quote

    Then they want to tell us "They are really nice guys"...
    Yeah, they might be nice guys. As long as they get what they want and nobody defies them.


    Yup, that's Goonswarm for you... I'm kinda surprised that the Yogcast doesn't have a banner for the SomethingAwful forums on their videos when they release them...


    This type of behavior is seen in EVERY game they involve themselves in... EVE Online, Second Life, you name it.. their actions are practically the same...

    Would anyone like to try a Slowpoke Tail?! Only 1 Million Yen!


    Quote

    this isn't about arrogance or ego, I have a block that I put a lot of freaking work into


    Every Mod Author, in existence. And yet, you STILL say otherwise.

  • I HATE if i hit "edit" instead of "reply". Sorry headhunter.


    Quote

    The super-ironic thing is all you guys have to go on is the MC Forums where we don't have a presence. Nobody knows that we are friends with Eloraam, or that Ablaka was the first to give us permission, or...


    Pronouncing this part.
    He DID contact me afterwards and got my approval for the modpack and excused for using it before asking.


    Of course, feel free to further debate about this topic in general, given this doesn't end up in flames.


  • Yeah, that's all fine and well.


    They didn't ask for permission first = bad manners.
    They received permission after the fact and apologized = All is forgiven.


    They still have X number of mods in their pack that they haven't received permission to use = They still don't give a rats ass about other peoples work.
    They still have X number of mods in their pack that they have been asked to remove but refuse to remove = They are being asshats about it.


    All of this could have been solved if they had spent some extra time asking first and adding later.
    And further more, taking in that many mods and releasing a mod pack means they will ultimately have to deal with all the support requests for said pack.


    If someone is using Techinc pack i will redirect them to the Technic pack thread/forums/whatever they have if they run into a problem.
    And i will still suggest they DON'T use Technic pack for the above reasons and the fact that installing mods isn't rocket science... Heck, even installing the Rocket Science addon isn't rocket science. ;)

  • Quote


    They still have X number of mods in their pack that they haven't received permission to use = They still don't give a rats ass about other peoples work.
    They still have X number of mods in their pack that they have been asked to remove but refuse to remove = They are being asshats about it.


    All of this could have been solved if they had spent some extra time asking first and adding later.
    And further more, taking in that many mods and releasing a mod pack means they will ultimately have to deal with all the support requests for said pack.

    This right here is the ultimate reason why Technic is plainly bad for both MC and Forge. It's not the fact that it 'makes installation easier' (like it was hard to begin with, lol), it's the fact that the blatantly DO NOT ask for any permissions before they throw mods into said packs to begin with... I'm pretty damn sure that, beforehand, if they had talked to any of the said mod developers (except FC, since that man has no sense of logic anyway) before they used them that they could have developed the pack no problems...


    But this is Kakermix, beloved 'hero' for Goonswarm: an organization that loves to profiteer off of making online play miserable for everyone and defiles every game that they touch with bile, malevolence, and spite. They don't ask permissions because they LOVE pissing people off with their actions, and spinning some 'but we're helping you out bro' justification afterwords. In every post (yes, every post) either Kakermix or another fellow goonswarm member has stated that they 'are doing good' by either 'donating money and not using adfly', 'giving more publicity that you may have ever got', 'made it easier for people to enjoy your work'. Sure, they did those things, but at what price? Increased installation problems and help requests, further issues with incompatibility and off-the-wall technical errors, and even more of the useless 'when iz thiz mod be update 4 1.x.x.x?!?!/!/11?!'... About half of the errors encountered actually have to be solved thru manual re-installation of said mods, which leaves most users further behind square one than if they had not touched the pack to begin with...


    Quite frankly, there isn't anything left to be said: Goonswarm, via Kakermix, will still operate in this fashion no matter how much the Forge and MC community dislikes it. Even if all the MC users protests their moves, they will still function with the same excuse lines of 'but this is really better for your 'backwater' community'. Really now? It's better for Forge to be used in such a defiled manner?


    Maybe it is for Goonswarm, but not for anyone else...

    Would anyone like to try a Slowpoke Tail?! Only 1 Million Yen!


    Quote

    this isn't about arrogance or ego, I have a block that I put a lot of freaking work into


    Every Mod Author, in existence. And yet, you STILL say otherwise.

  • If someone is using Techinc pack i will redirect them to the Technic pack thread/forums/whatever they have if they run into a problem.
    And i will still suggest they DON'T use Technic pack for the above reasons and the fact that installing mods isn't rocket science... Heck, even installing the Rocket Science addon isn't rocket science. ;)

    This is more than welcome. The only time we ever redirect support issues back to the mods is if it is an obvious bug with the mod itself and it may be an issue that hasn't been posted in the mod's thread a hundred times already.


    Installing most mods, particularly those contained within Technic (thanks Forge), is not a difficult process that is true. However it can be time consuming and fiddly, and in the case of multiplayer you can have compatibility issues. A lot of people don't want to put up with the hassle. They just want it to work. Technic provides one answer. Until there is an overall means of dealing with compatibility and ease of installation Technic and the like (Servers distributing their own packs for example) are here to stay.


    I'm really excited about the Mojang/Bukkit API, Spout, and the things Chicken Bones is working on. Things could get really interesting really fast.