Discussion about conversion mods.

  • "Conversion Mod" = A mod that is intended to serve as a bridge for functionality between 2 mods.


    Recently, (today I think) a user posted a new mod in the 'Pending Addons' section aimed at conversion between the RP2 and IC2 energy systems. Almost immediately Eloraam jumped on it and requested it be taken down as it was released without her permission and because it 'interferes' with her future plans for the 'technology'. Alblaka complied by removing the download link and locking the thread. Both of Alblaka's actions perfectly understandable, given his position.


    My goal with this post is to show that while Eloraam's reason's are understandable concerns, their validity is questionable.


    1) - Her permission; Is kind of in violation with the ideals of the game. It's a fact that modding is a very large part of Minecraft (look around, we're talking about a mod for mods here). The ability to 'make it your game', the ability to throw a few mods in to facilitate playing the game the way *you* want to play it. ie: 'I'm tired of mining for resources' > Install BuildCraft > Build Quarry. Viola! My game. My way.


    What if her reasoning here was applied to Minecraft as a whole? What if Mojang got into the game of approving 'official' addons? All others disallowed?


    2) - Her future plans; Future plans are fine... for the future. But in the here and now, what's the harm? In the here and now, the ability to 'tap' into a mod with a better developed energy system (IC2's) to supplement the technology of a mod with a less developed energy system (RP2's current system) would be very nice.


    Players are dreaming up and building things every day, to make that wait somewhere on a plate that is as full as Eloraams seem's foolish when there is a solution here, now. Furthermore, Eloraam's future plans can make this sub-mod obsolete when those plans become 'New Features'. Who want's to install an additional sub-mod to do something that's contained in the mod?


    3) - quote;eloraam "In fact, I've specifically disallowed any energy-conversion mod for Blutricity. I have my own plans in mind for that."


    Oh really now? What if, I dunno.... say, Alblaka denies permission to convert into IC2 compatible EU's? Not saying he would, but what if....? Alblaka would in essence be doing the same thing to Eloraam as she is doing to immibis (maker of the RP<>IC2 converter).


    4) - Closing; In short, I don't feel as though Eloraam is playing fair. She will 'borrow' ideas for her own mod, but has a strict 'Hand's-Off' policy for others looking to work with her mod. I know that Eloraam is likely the best modder going right now, but she needs to not be quite so... hypocritical, I guess. She makes her own 'tube' system. Her own 'energy' system. Yet she shuts down any attempt to ease compatibility between similar, 'competing' mods. It wouldn't surprise me at all if her 'future plans' for Blutric conversion were somehow one-way only as well.


    5) - End Rant; (The irony of this happening a day after the SOPA\PIPA protest is not totally lost on me.)


    edit: As an afterthought- How many BC<>IC2 converters are there? 3? Each doing it a slightly different way?
    ...let the mod's exist, let the users decide what (and which) to install. /edit.

    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.


  • First of all, kudos for a well-argumented oppinion, written without flame but with proper grammar. Doesn't happen often enough these days.


    Secondly, I agree with your oppinion in regard of Eloraam shouldn't forbid modding certain parts of RP2. I would never do either, but just ignore / never imply the addons I consider unfitting. But as you've said, it's her decision and whatever she decides, i'll support and help enforcing it.


    @ your #3:
    I won't :3
    But yes, if i would insisit on that not being implemented, she would be forced to drop it the same way that other converter mod had to be dropped. And i doubt she would try to force a converte upon this mod XD Though i don't doubt she would try to persuade me ^^

  • 1) - Her permission; Is kind of in violation with the ideals of the game.


    It is her work, and hers to do with as she sees fit. Perhaps you would be fine with letting everyone else use your code as they see fit, but then again, perhaps you wouldn't.
    I don't know - as far as I know, you don't have any mods for Minecraft so it's hypothetical.


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    My game. My way.


    You're free to write your own mod that does the same sort of thing. As far as I can tell, there's not even anything stopping you from changing the existing mod for your own use - if you didn't distribute it, you might have a point there.


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    Future plans are fine... for the future. But in the here and now, what's the harm?


    Version control and consistency are the primary considerations. A few days ago, we watched someone waste his time making a "1.1-compatible" version of IC (and BuildCraft) here. Great for the impatient few who have to have it "now"... until the official version releases, and it's not compatible anyways. Then all that time they spent is wasted anyhow.


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    Furthermore, Eloraam's future plans can make this sub-mod obsolete when those plans become 'New Features'. Who want's to install an additional sub-mod to do something that's contained in the mod?


    Why would anyone want to waste their time writing a mod that they know will become obsolete because the idea is already in the official design process?
    Ask Jorge what he thinks of FC making his IC<->BTW dynamo add-on obsolete. Then ask him if he'd have made the mod anyways, if he knew FC would change BTW to no longer be compatible with IC2.


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    What if, I dunno.... say, Alblaka denies permission to convert into IC2 compatible EU's? Not saying he would, but what if....? Alblaka would in essence be doing the same thing to Eloraam as she is doing to immibis


    Well, then... you and she would have to accept that, wouldn't you? Do you think she made plans for such a conversion without talking to Alblaka first?


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    I don't feel as though Eloraam is playing fair. She will 'borrow' ideas for her own mod, but has a strict 'Hand's-Off' policy for others looking to work with her mod.


    As my friend SOTMead has observed, there is a big difference between ideas and implementation. Ideas are meaningless here - it's how they are implemented that matters. The best implementation should naturally prevail.


    You, however, seem to be confusing ideas with intellectual property. She may do something similar to what others have done, but she does it her own way - she writes her own code, she doesn't hack someone else's and release without permission.


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    Eloraam needs to not be quite so... hypocritical, I guess. She makes her own 'tube' system. Her own 'energy' system.


    Emphasis on "her own". She didn't make an add-on that borrowed someone else's energy or tubes without their permission. If you want a fair comparison, imagine if Redpower just used BC pipes and IC EU's... and without SpaceToad or Alblaka's approval. That would make it a proper comparison... but that's not what it's like.


    Also, these developers are all part of the Forge team, and have committed to the mutual platform that allows interoperability of their mods. Add-on developers are not part of that compact and nothing gives them the right to hack the code for their own purposes.


    When someone misuses your own efforts and property without your permission, then you'll begin to understand what it's like to be in her shoes.

    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand." - Bertrand Russell

  • Here's the great thing about the situation: Most of her material is module.. Meaning that you aren't 'required' to actually install these aspects into RP2 to enjoy. However, that neither helps nor solves the problem, and if you become dependent on said features (aka: Frames), then this problem becomes even more of a hassle..


    Personally, I think she's being too much of a bitch about the issue (pun intended), yet she is allowed to do this. However, that doesn't mean that I'm not going to outsource those types of features from other mods, and circumvent her influence in my game play. Currently, I don't use Silver for anything RP related. Hell, I would even bother farming for the ore if it wasn't for the fact that you can use it in both Thaumcraft and IC. Eloraam will, either one way or another, have to come to terms with the fact that her mod design WILL be altered heavily as long as she continues with this compatibility with the Forge API system...


    That is, ofc, if she doesn't go the way of Flowerchild with mod design...

    Would anyone like to try a Slowpoke Tail?! Only 1 Million Yen!


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    this isn't about arrogance or ego, I have a block that I put a lot of freaking work into


    Every Mod Author, in existence. And yet, you STILL say otherwise.

  • I was thinking similarly this morning. Here's what gets me, though:


    2) - Her future plans; Future plans are fine... for the future.


    3) - quote;eloraam "... I have my own plans in mind for that."


    How was the person who made this mod-for-a-mod supposed to know of upcoming features and functions? As I was under the impression that upcoming features and functionality were (usually) kept secret, partly for excitement for fans and users of the mod, partly to avoid idea stealing. *shrug*

  • I was thinking similarly this morning. Here's what gets me, though:



    How was the person who made this mod-for-a-mod supposed to know of upcoming features and functions? As I was under the impression that upcoming features and functionality were (usually) kept secret, partly for excitement for fans and users of the mod, partly to avoid idea stealing. *shrug*

    Nope, Elooram usually talks about her future plans in her blog and twitter account, maybe in the minecraft forum as well. And i remember reading somewhere in those about her plans of implementing her own EU Converters.


    If you are lazy to do a basic search on the topic then shame on you.

  • @Alblaka- Thank you for your compliment's and allowing me my soapbox (again). Agreeing with the majority of my points goes a long way a well. ;D


    HeadHunter67 - here we go...



    (1) - Not her work. immibis's work that hooks into her work. Into Alblaka's work. Same way her work hooks into Mojang's work. Elorram is coming down on something that is typically encouraged by other modders. Alblaka and SpaceToad come to mind. Where would SirSengir's Foresty be if SpaceToad took a stance similar to what Eloraam is taking on this?


    (2) - I could. Sure. I understand that. I've thought about getting into modding Minecraft, but honestly- Maybe for after if I leave a current project I'm involved with. I'd also need a good original idea to build on. But starting with rebuilding other people's sub-mods would be a good place to start. Now's not the time for that, however.


    Regardless- change what existing mod? the one that had the link removed and is thusly unavailable since it can't be downloaded?


    (3) - Version control and consistency? How does that apply to Eloraam requesting the takedown of a sub-mod that will one day be made obsolete by the mod itself?


    Counterfeit 1.1 IC2 comparison doesn't apply. unauthorized port isn't comparable to a needed submod. Doubtful Eloraam will go about the conversion the same way that immibis used? A veteran modder doing it the same way as a total rookie? It's accepted that Eloraam will make this mod obsolete, I don't think anyone will complain if she does it better. ...eventually...


    (4) - Someone looking to get started with modding and seeing a need, perhaps? Question isn't who would want to,question is what is right if someone does. Like I said above- chances of Eloraam and immisis doing it the same... possible Eloraam's way might be better... It's a risk modders take. Mojang might take anybodies idea at any time. Before pistons were vanilla- they were a mod.


    (5) - And look at what that mentality would do to modding. If every modder took this tactic. And maybe she has talked to Alblaka, maybe she hasn't... Not sure it would stop her if he did object.


    (6) - Well and good. And when Eloraam gets around to it if her 'ideas' about conversion are indeed the best implementation of the concept then her method will prevail and make the immibis's mod obsolete. Before that it sets the bar that she will have to beat. Maybe that's the fear.


    (7) - This makes me question earlier points. #1 - It's not her code, RP2 is her code. immibis's converter is his code. His does nothing to her's that her's does not do to Mojang's. And presumably will do to Alblaka's once she gets to making her own energy conversion idea's more of a reality. What she is doing here is nothing to do with intellectual copyright, it's about preemptive copyright. 'You can't make that mod because I'm *planning* to make that mod."


    (8) - She made them. yes. From what I see though, she had time to look at the IC2 and BC variants and come up with tweaks to the ideas to make them her own. The IC2 and BC systems were her inspiration though.


    This wasn't really about comparing the mods though. It's about comparing the attitudes of the mod developers to their respective communities. Specifically, the developers of sub-mods. What would the future of BuildCraft's Logistic Pipes be if Krapht had to deal with SpaceToad in the same capacity?


    (9) - Interoperability until Eloraam decides to make her own that is capable of replacing the previous. If Eloraam was living up to her part of that agreement then she would have limited her impact to making... I dunno, A 'BuildCraft' module that only adds machines to SpaceToad's system. If she needed changes to be made to the BuildCraft piping system then she should *collabotae* with SpaceToad on those modifications. Same for Alblaka with energy related concerns. Maybe then she would have more time for some of her larger plans...


    They aren't hacking the code. They are using the same tools Eloraam, SpaceToad, Sir Sengir, Alblaka and a hundred other modders are using. This is about Eloraam doing everything she can to keep other people from essentially the same thing she does with Mojang's code. immibis's code simply touches hers along the way.


    That being said... I'm tired of typing on my laptop while sitting on the floor.

    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

  • Not her work. immibis's work that hooks into her work. Into Alblaka's work. Same way her work hooks into Mojang's work.


    Immibis' code is useless without Eloraam's code. He's even explicitly admittied that he had to decompile her code to make it.
    The difference between modding her work and modding Mojang's, is that Mojang gives permission to do so. Alblaka has prohibited certain uses of his code - look no further than the abortive "1.1 update" someone tried to release the other day.


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    Version control and consistency? How does that apply to Eloraam requesting the takedown of a sub-mod that will one day be made obsolete by the mod itself?


    I've already explained that. It's one thing to make an add-on that may be depreciated by an official development - it's another thing to make a mod that one knows will be obsoleted soon enough. Eloraam has already stated that she intends to implement BT<->EU transfer in the near future, and anything she hasn't said on the matter is due to confidentaility between her and Alblaka.



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    maybe she has talked to Alblaka, maybe she hasn't... Not sure it would stop her if he did object.


    There's no "maybe" - she's worked closely with him on things. It would appear that you get all of your infomation merely from this forum, and from no other source. If you read their blogs and her thread on the MC forums, you would have a more complete picture of how they work together.


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    And when Eloraam gets around to it if her 'ideas' about conversion are indeed the best implementation of the concept then her method will prevail and make the immibis's mod obsolete. Before that it sets the bar that she will have to beat.


    The whole truth of the point is, it's HER bar Immibis is using! And I doubt that "melon batteries" are going to be the better implementation, honestly. Or that people will prefer to use an add-on that doesn't permit you to use HD textures.


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    It's not her code, RP2 is her code. immibis's converter is his code. His does nothing to her's that her's does not do to Mojang's.


    ... Except for the all-important "decompiles in violation of the license".


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    And presumably will do to Alblaka's once she gets to making her own energy conversion idea's more of a reality.


    ...except for the "with permission of the other developer".


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    This is about Eloraam doing everything she can to keep other people from essentially the same thing she does with Mojang's code.


    Eloraam isn't stopping anyone from doing what she does with Mojang's code - she uses Mojang's code in accordance with the license and with Mojang's permission.
    Immibis cannot say the same - he decompiled her code in violation of her license, without her permission, and without even her knowledge. There's no comparison.


    I think that even Alblaka will agree that it is important to respect the wishes of his fellow developers, so don't lean too heavily on his praise for your method.

    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand." - Bertrand Russell

  • For me the more interesting question is, why mods like IC2, RP2 and Buildcraft must have thei own converters? The problem exists because forge don't have an converter in it. I mean, forge has an ore library to make mods compatible with each other, why not an energy coupler with an databse to convert energy units from one system to another?


  • (1) - Valid. In that light I really need to stop making these posts. But something's I do with the idea that maybe my post will be the one that inspires someone else to make some changes. In some fairy land I secretly hope that maybe my protest post will be the one that makes someone say, 'Ya know... I like Eloraam. I like the work she does. But she needs a check.' Maybe one of these times someone will decide that Eloraam has done similar enough times and decide to do something about it. I'd not hate being the inspiration for something like that.


    Beyond that, Eloraam's code is useless without Mojang's. It'd be nice if she kept that in mind, and allowed others some leeway when they try to working off of what she has built.


    Again- the abortive 1.1 attempt really does not compare here. Why keep bringing it up? immibis' mod was a mod of his own creation. There was nothing converting RP2<>IC2 energies when he started. Was when he finished. The 1.1 porter took Alblaka's code, tweaked what was broken. You're coming down on this 1.1 porter awfully harshly. He posted the port HERE, he wasn't trying to steal it or pass it off as his own work. His 1.1 port was offered more in the 'Here's a IC2 that works with MC 1.1, if Alblaka let's me, then I'd like to release it for until the official build is out. I doubt that guy expected his port to become the overnight official build.


    Point is- RP2 <> IC2 conversion mod is apples to the bootleg IC2's oranges.


    (2) - Soon enough is not now. My point is what's the point of shutting down someone *now* for what you are planning to do *eventually*. Besides, sooner Eloraam adds the conversion to her mod the sooner she could make immibis' mod functionally obsolete. Sooner she adds her own conversion the sooner she could make the sub mod obsolete through lack of necessity as opposed to a bullshit DMCA-esque TakeDown Order.


    (3) - You're going too far into this. Taking things WAY out of context. Maybe not. Maybe her attitude about things like these would be grounds to reconsider working relationships. But they aren't my relationships and therefor not mine to reconsider. If Alblaka were willing to change his mind and allow the mod to remain posted here this might be a topic of conversation then. Please don't start with the 'You don't pay attention to enough sources for your info' crap again, went through that already. Thanks.


    (4) - Uh... no? Because currently there is no bar because Eloraam already knocked over the one that immibis was trying to set up. Keeping in mind the bar I was referring to was the one for RP2 <?> IC2 power conversion. Eloraam does not have a bar for immibis to meet yet as she has not implemented power conversion yet. And give him a break on the HD-textures bit. First mod, less than a day old... I'm sure he'd sort that out eventually... had he be given the chance that is....


    (5) - Honestly I've not looked at her license agreement, and I'm not willing to at this instant. But as far as I'm concerned- You cannot place restrictions on your work prohibiting others from doing to yours what you did to create yours. It's how the game works. She decompiled Minecraft to allow her to create her mod to function as she pleases, placing restrictions on others for what she has done makes her a hypocrite. It's how it is. She modded Minecraft. immibis modded RP2. Turnabout is fair play mothereffer.


    (6) - And my point, HeadHunter, since you insist on being difficult- Is that this is one of those times that she should have allowed it. Mods are mods. She mods, immibis mods. Let the kid mod, be honored in some small way that his first mod involves your mod and make a mental note that you need to move your own conversion mod up on your mental 'to-do' list. Would have been a much better way for her to handle this. Sure beats adding to the list of 'Thing's Eloraam does that Suck.' list.


    (7) - Why can't you grasp the concept of Eloraam keeping people from doing to her code what she does to Mojang's code is over-reaching in this case. I'm assuming that her license agreement is a variant of some Community Copyright, in which case those are intended to prevent what would amount to plagiarism, not derivative works, as you are suggesting. immibis' converter mod being the derivative work.


    (8) I wasn't. He complimented my writing style, I acknowledged. I know he has different views in some area than I, but I also think I can get away with saying things that he can't. Like I said in my OP. Both of his actions were totally understandable given his position. Aside from that- I think I'll take praise as it's given, even if that means with a grain of salt from time to time. Thanks for keeping my ego in check for me though.


    For me the more interesting question is, why mods like IC2, RP2 and Buildcraft must have thei own converters? The problem exists because forge don't have an converter in it. I mean, forge has an ore library to make mods compatible with each other, why not an energy coupler with an databse to convert energy units from one system to another?


    Good question. Be great if this was the solution the Forge (ahem) developers would pursue. I dunno, probably not get developed due to interfering with Eloraam's future plans.

    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

  • The main issue with a MCForge integrated converter is the fact the energy systems tend to differ a lot.
    Would be hard to generalize them, I guess.


    But if Forge made an energy system then it would be the same as all other things Forge handles of a similar nature. 'Here's the energy system that forge uses, If mod makers want to claim 'Forge-Compatibility' it's up to them to bring their energy systems in line. More or less same story as ores and the the ore dictionary. Yes?

    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

  • I secretly hope that maybe my protest post will be the one that makes someone say, 'Ya know... I like Eloraam. I like the work she does. But she needs a check.' Maybe one of these times someone will decide that Eloraam has done similar enough times and decide to do something about it.


    That's a pipe dream, because no one can make her do anythign with her mod that she doesn't want to do.
    Force her to share (not that anyone has the right to) and she'll just stop developing altogether. Would that help anyone in any way?


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    Again- the abortive 1.1 attempt really does not compare here. Why keep bringing it up?


    Because it is a perfect example of Alblaka asserting his right to determine how his content may be used. It compares perfectly, because what we're really talking about is each developer's right to share or protect their content as they see fit.


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    Please don't start with the 'You don't pay attention to enough sources for your info' crap again, went through that already. Thanks.


    The fact of the matter is, all you know of this issue is what you've read here. You're clearly not familiar with the working relationship between the Forrge developers, nor Eloraaam's development of her mod or any other side of the story but what you see through this one narrow window. Like it or not, that's not the big picture.


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    (5) - Honestly I've not looked at her license agreement, and I'm not willing to at this instant. But as far as I'm concerned- You cannot place restrictions on your work prohibiting others from doing to yours what you did to create yours. It's how the game works. She decompiled Minecraft to allow her to create her mod to function as she pleases, placing restrictions on others for what she has done makes her a hypocrite. It's how it is. She modded Minecraft. immibis modded RP2. Turnabout is fair play mothereffer.


    OK, I'll say this again (and as many times as it takes you to comprehend it:


    * Mojang permits people to make mods based on their code. Eloraam's mod is acting in accordance with the license of the code she is modding.
    *Eloraam does not permit her code to be decompiled for mods. She is within her legal and creative rights to do so.


    You may feel that she cannot place such restrictions, but your belief doesn't modify the reality of a creator's rights. Just because Mojang chooses to share doesn't mean Eloraam is obligated to.


    If you want to talk about hypocrisy, it's advocating someone's right to do as they wish but denying Eloraam the right to do the same with her code. This isn't "turnabout", and your attitude shows a marked lack of respect for the person without whom Immibis would have nothing to try and mod in the first place.


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    And my point, HeadHunter, since you insist on being difficult- Is that this is one of those times that she should have allowed it


    I'm not "being difficult", but I wondered how long until you'd try and make this discussion about me. What's "difficult" is trying to get you to understand that she has the right to do as she pleases with what she's created, and no one has the right to take that from her.


    You may feel like she "should have allowed it", but it may come as a shock to discover that she's probably never heard of you and honestly doesn't consider your opinion in her development plans. Honestly, I wouldn't have minded seeing it as well (though it could have been better implemented) - but she exercised her right to defend her license and I respect and support her decision as much as Alblaka does.


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    Why can't you grasp the concept of Eloraam keeping people from doing to her code what she does to Mojang's code is over-reaching in this case.


    Why can't you grasp that it's not the same? What she did was explicitly permitted by Mojang's license- what Immibis did was explicilty not permitted by hers.


    It's not about whether it "would have been nice" - it's about respecting her rights as a creator of content. She has the right to share or withhold as she pleases, to permit or deny specific uses, and to restrict distribution of add-ons based off her code. As Immibis admitted that he had to decompile her code to make his add-on, she is entitled to prohibit the add-on.


    If you still have a problem with this, the person with whom you should be discussing it... is Eloraam. Pontificating to us will get you nowhere. If you're seeking change, take it to the source.

    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand." - Bertrand Russell

  • The main issue with a MCForge integrated converter is the fact the energy systems tend to differ a lot.
    Would be hard to generalize them, I guess.


    Maybe but not really the generel thing is that all machines receive energy packages per time interval and must have a special amount of packages per time to operate. Theoretical u can say when 1EU arrived and should be transformed into BC energy than it could maybe something like 2BC-EU or i need 2BC for 1EU or more generell 1EU = 1F-EU = 2BC-EU when a another mod cam an say 1M-EU = 2F-EU then it's only mathematic to convert one package into an another.

  • But if Forge made an energy system then it would be the same as all other things Forge handles of a similar nature. 'Here's the energy system that forge uses, If mod makers want to claim 'Forge-Compatibility' it's up to them to bring their energy systems in line. More or less same story as ores and the the ore dictionary. Yes?

    The ore Pollution was a severe problem that needed a fixing pronto. Having 3 different kind of tins, spawning at different Y coordinates, in different amounts and each with different recipes that could not be used in the others recipes was a BAD problem. That was the reason the ore dictionary was created, to fix a problem.


    I dont see the different kinds of Energy (That all 3 works differently too) as a problem that warrants a forge level solution, and even if it is, it should be well down the priority list. Besides theres already a BC<->IC2 energy converter (Well sort of, EU gets converted to MJ, but you only convert Oil and Fuel to EU not the direct MJ :P), is it so difficult to wait for eloraam to make the IC2<->Bluetricity converter that she herself had said in several ocassions that was in her development plans?


    (That reminds me, why Albaka doesnt implement the burning of oil/fuel for EU in the generator? Or officially integrate the Petrochemical Generator for that purpose :P)

  • Most people miss one very important point.


    It's about asking the modder. If you do something with the IC2-API that's fine, because the API is made for this. It's the same with BC. But if you need to decompile a Mod to make an Addon, which is strictly forbidden by the modder, you could at least ask him and share with ideas with the modder, so that he might allow it.


    So if people don't ask, they have to be put down, because they will never learn it. And she already said that the Module for IC2 may arise even earlier. So I don't understand why people don't ask her before they do something she isn't allowing.


    The next thing obviously is balance. No one could evaluate RP-Power vs. IC2-Power. Making the Solar-Module 1to1 would be quite strange, because they are so incredible easy to build. Even later it would be difficult and might cause balance-problems. So her modular-steampower-gen might get a module for creating EUs instead of Blutricity through Steampower or such things.


    And till then you could simply use Blutriticty-Furnaces to make charcoal and burn them in a generator, quite easy power-transmission and Blutricity isn't used that much, and since blutricity-furnaces work at the same speed as electric-furnaces do, there is no need to convert EU to Blutricity for them.


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    I dont see the different kinds of Energy (That all 3 works differently too) as a problem that warrants a forge level solution, and even if it is, it should be well down the priority list. Besides theres already a BC<->IC2 energy converter (Well sort of, EU gets converted to MJ, but you only convert Oil and Fuel to EU not the direct MJ :P), is it so difficult to wait for eloraam to make the IC2<->Bluetricity converter that she herself had said in several ocassions that was in her development plans?

    Actually Eloraam was or even is thinking how a forge-solution could look like. EU are more or less some kind of Watt because they represent Current and Voltage. It's quite easy to convert it to blutricity if you just imagine it alongside real systems. HV would obviously have a higher Voltage. So Full packages (4, 32, 128, 512, 2048) would all share the same amount of Current, but with more or less Voltage. If you have a packet with 344 EU it would have the same Voltage as a 512 EU packet but less with less Current. So there you go. So it's possible, but she doesn't only have the possibilities of the transformation in her mind, she also thinks about the balance of such converters.

  • I don't use RP, mainly because of Eloraam's heavy-handed attitude.
    Her mod, her rules, fine. I don't have to use it. Nothing to see here, move along.


    What does deeply concern me is the fact that someone who is so self-serving has control of the Forge.
    For lack of an official API, (and face it the rate they are going it isn't coming anytime soon) Forge has become as critical as Modloader.


    The reason we make and use mods is to have choices the devs didn't give us.
    This kind of attitude and behavior is completely at odds with that reason.

  • I don't use RP, mainly because of Eloraam's heavy-handed attitude.
    Her mod, her rules, fine. I don't have to use it. Nothing to see here, move along.


    What does deeply concern me is the fact that someone who is so self-serving has control of the Forge.
    For lack of an official API, (and face it the rate they are going it isn't coming anytime soon) Forge has become as critical as Modloader.


    The reason we make and use mods is to have choices the devs didn't give us.
    This kind of attitude and behavior is completely at odds with that reason.

    Actually LexManos is the Main Programmer of the forge lately. She only does what she needs, and sometimes looks into problems. But since many contributors to the forge have own Mods to work with they can't maintain it completly. So basically neither SpaceToad nor Eloraam have any control over forge (well SpaceToad does the public packing and such things. So Forge Maintainer mainly is LexManos... you may have noticed it, because a new forge-update was released the time eloraam was on vacation (which even caused RP to not work properly).


    Actually Forge gives developers more options to decide. You would most likely not be able to play BC, IC2 or RP together because they may modify the same baseclasses (well IC2 not sure, but BC and RP definitly).

  • What does deeply concern me is the fact that someone who is so self-serving has control of the Forge.
    For lack of an official API, (and face it the rate they are going it isn't coming anytime soon) Forge has become as critical as Modloader.


    Honestly, what's the issue? It does't influence anything if Eloraam adds a set of hooks to Minecrafts basefiles via Forge, it will probably even imporve MCs performance XD
    The only valid argument is, it increases the wormload necessary to port MCForge.
    Which shouldn't pose an issue for most IC-users, given i tend to update as last of the tekmods ^^'