Overclockers OP


  • Yeah you could change a simple thing, make them not multiply but add to each other and change the values a little bit. So two overclockers is +100% Energy-usage and 60% faster.


    With 17 Overclockers one process uses 1971 EU. Without it costs 625 EU. This is only about 3 times more expensive. I don't really know how to get 1971 EU/t inside the macerator, but the energy-usage isn't that high if you base it on the work done.

  • Wow, all I was suggesting was ramping up the energy costs so that I had to use higher grade cables and the transformer upgrade. All this talk about stack size seems a bit extreem, I mean I'm comfortable with 7 to 9 overclockers making all my machines operate for less than a second per cycle. Maybe 2 or 4 Overclockers per voltage level, a simple change that would not require much recoding or significant changes in the existing system.


    e.g. 1 overclocker needs 4/t, 2 needs 8/t, 3 needs 16, 4 needs 32, and so on. Maybe with the speed at 25% per overlocker of process speed, so the second would reduce the 75% time to 56.25%, the next 42.81%.


    The question of balance is a relevent one, but not one to be taken extreemly. As it is, the overclockers are approximatly as cheap as building multiple macerators, having a cycle last less than a second is fine for me working manually. If I were to automate it with multiple machines, it would be more of a question of factory space vs speed than power vs speed. I would like to have the option of having one of each machine with 64 overclockers processing once per tick (relevent power, piping and pipe contents assumed). I'd expect to need EV cabling, and probably a matching amount of charge/transformer upgrades.


    If the drawn amout of power (from external cabling) was managed by the transformer rather than the overlocker, then the internal battery would be more significant. This would mean that the overclocker could only draw from the internal charge and that would requre a better spead of upgrades. This would be significantly more expensive resource wise, as not to break early game, and would more easily scale with ease of resource access.

  • Thats the joke, No use in generating Stupid amounts of energy if you never are going to use it >.>

    tier 3 will drain insane amounts of way more than a mass fab will drain. We would need a tier 10 storage to power it....MSFU does not nearly supply enough energy with 512 eu/tick. I tested this with 64 overclockers. MSFU couldnt keep up with the energy requirement at all. Actualy the macerator does absolutely nothing with 64 overclockers in it (its so slow you cant notice it).

  • tier 3 will drain insane amounts of way more than a mass fab will drain. We would need a tier 10 storage to power it....MSFU does not nearly supply enough energy with 512 eu/tick. I tested this with 64 overclockers. MSFU couldnt keep up with the energy requirement at all. Actualy the macerator does absolutely nothing with 64 overclockers in it (its so slow you cant notice it).


    It might not even work. The Macerator can't store enough energy to run a single tick, because it would need almost 2k EU/t. But no machine is cabable of providing it with enough power to run on 2k EU/t. So you need to increase the storage enough that it can store 2k EU/t to even run :P

  • If everyone does not like the current setup, why not just add a third property to each Overclocker mod.


    Call it a "stacking inefficiency" make it grow expotentially, rather than multiplicatively like the bonuses. The more OC's you add the less effective the lot becomes (both less speed AND more powah). Tune to liking. Problem solved.


    I would still like to see tiered OC mods. Higher tiers have better efficiencies and lower stacking penalties (if introduced). Stacking would introduce some fun non-linearities, and would definately make higher tiers much more useful.


    Tier 1 OC's: 1.5x EU/t


    Teir 2: 1.45x


    Teir 3: 1.4x



    Finally, any change we can get tiered energy storage mods too? It would be nice to be able to condense all of my Energy Storage into 1 block.


    Tier 2: 10k EU


    Teir 3: 100k EU


    Tier 4: 1M EU

  • I think 'tiered' would be good for the transformer module. Though I do like the scaling idea, even now I'll add/remove the odd overclocker depending on my local power supply.


    As for supplying a machine with over 2k power, think about it people! Machine has 6 faces, each with one Iron EV/HV cable, Attacthed to each cable is the EV transformer with four MFSU aiming IN. You won't even need to paint the cables :P




    Edit: Trying the maths again I make that 12k with loss that would't burst a batbox! (Or 'none' if 4xInsulated).



    Edit: More thinking. We have transformers and storage for power already, how about tweaking the existing transformer module pattern using MFE/MFSU and the higher transformers. On the subject of upgrades....... Zippinus, how about doing with the electrolizer what you did with the solar panels.... Heading off to post on that thread now.

  • It's not about the energy, it's about the time. All the energy it would take to do it over x number of ticks is instead expended in one tick to complete the process. That seems sensible.

    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand." - Bertrand Russell

  • Actually I dont think so, anything going faster will also need more Energy. For beeing "faster" we can also just built 10 Furnaces and Split the stack to be smelted on the furnaces.
    Now we want to save space, and still want fast smelting -> put overclockers in, speed up, rise the Eu consume/t.



    FarFar

  • Actually I dont think so, anything going faster will also need more Energy.


    You're missing the point. The fact is, the energy used is entirely dependent upon the work being done. If it's done in half the time, it takes twice as much energy per tick - but the end total is the same.
    That's just basic physics - and it also happens to be how the things actually work in the game.

    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand." - Bertrand Russell

  • I dont know how they are over powered
    Turning Cobble to sand in the macerator
    1 Re-Battery, 1 Overclocker produces 11 Sand and just on the line off making 12
    1 Re-Battery, 0 Overclocker produces 12 Sand and half way to 13


    So 1 only makes it less than 10% faster.


    So really only way I would bother using it is by doing this.
    8 Storage Modules to 1 overclocker, to make up for the extra power used, and 8 ocerclockers anyways helps out more than enough.


    But if you got time, I just wouldnt use them, if your trying to get stuff done fast than use them.

  • I hope I'm not too late to get in on the great debate!


    I have to say the idea of adding dozens of the same item to improve results doesn't seem like the IndustrialCraft way of doing things. What I’ve always enjoyed about IC is that you really have to sit down and consider before you start putting wrench to iron. You have to plan out your wiring, keep track of voltages and draw, be careful about wire lengths. What I’m getting at is it offers creative ways to work around problems and set up your appliances YOUR WAY. Finesse! :D


    On the other hand, there are very few situations where brute force is the only option. The only instance I can really think of where IC uses the ‘more gun’ mentality is the use of generators. All hail the super-flowers and mega-towers! But when it comes to setting up electrical systems, throwing more of one item at a problem until you’re satisfied feels uncreative. Sorry for the bluntness there but I’m used to seeing really inspired systems that make players think before they build. Thinking isn’t really necessary when you’re jamming a few handfuls of the same three items into each appliance.


    Now I don’t criticize without offering input. It may not be the best idea since I don’t understand the math involved but I was thinking an electronics system would go a long way to making the process of upgrading appliances more in-depth. Here goes:


    Give each appliance a small item panel equivalent to the size of a teir1 reactor. Implement a range of electronic components which you can place into that area which combine with each other to create desired effects. (much like a reactor) That way people could create their own circuit layouts much like reactor designs. If it’s possible, make the mainboard a container item, so you can pop the components into it, then pop that into a single slot on the appliance.

  • I hope I'm not too late to get in on the great debate!


    I have to say the idea of adding dozens of the same item to improve results doesn't seem like the IndustrialCraft way of doing things. What I’ve always enjoyed about IC is that you really have to sit down and consider before you start putting wrench to iron.

    I agree. IC's way of adding variables to a MineCraft problem uses a comforting degree of predictability with a healthy dose of wtf for doing it wrong. (eg. accidentally trashing my l33t base for the second time with a mining laser in scatter mode) I fondly remember the first time i looked at a setup and thought, "damn, I need more room." The thought of being able to perform 17-20 processes per second on a single machine makes me cringe. Frankly, it's a gamebreaker in my opinion. There are plenty of mods out there I can use to simply summon from the ether at no risk or expense of energy and material. Please don't add a 'magic box'


    -How does it work?
    Well first, I attach a pipe to this thingy that makes cobblestone from....nothing. Still interested?

  • You are free to read the Link in my signature to my proposed module system that i though some days ago :rolleyes:, you are also free to add any comment about it :D

  • i thing the idea of higher energy needed of overclockers is bad,its should be as high as needed like:
    double fast,double energy needed

  • The system is based around exponential growth which a few people here don't understand properly. It's not 1.5*<original consumption> but 1.5*<consumption of prev. level with 1 less OC> or <original consumption>*1.5^<count of OC>


    The lost energy currently scales somewhat like that:
    0 OC: 0%
    1 OC: 15%
    2 OC: 33%
    3 OC: 54%
    4 OC: 77%
    5 OC: 105%
    6 OC: 136%
    7 OC: 172%
    8 OC: 214%
    9 OC: 263%
    10 OC: 318%
    11 OC: 383%
    12 OC: 457%
    14 OC: 543%
    15 OC: 641%
    ...


    The internal stack limit is just due to technical reasons and it's reasonably high to not influence practical applications.
    A tiered system can always only have a few tiers which makes it either cap off fairly early or hardly usable until a very late stage of the game.
    The whole point behind the overclocking system is that you have a practically infinite upgrade potential and you still have something other than mass fabricators to dump your power into, even after months of playing on a smp server. Of course it doesn't make too much sense at some point, but it's a step further to improve the mod for long term players.
    I'm considering to increase the power consumption increase to 60% per overclocker though.

  • my two cents for whats it's worth.


    Upgrades should be permanent. You should not be able to move them around like you can now.
    There should be tiers that require associated energy upgrades. I.E 8 or more overclockers require you to be @ 512 EU. say 4-8 runs on 128 and more than 8 extreme voltage perhaps.


    Basically you should have to think about what you are doing a little more. Now it's just hey make some upgrades and move them around as needed. Oh and it all runs on copper...

  • You, sir, hit a decent point

    Quote

    ...its not like i have an idea on how Alblaka mind works...


    -
    It has tiny stupid what below?... A RATING SYSTEM! here goes my face :Advanced Furnace: cmon it is even transparent you can't be serious.

  • When I was running on an MFE, I found that my pair of macerators could only handle 5-6 overclockers before starving themselves - until I installed a storage upgrade and a transformer upgrade in each machine.
    Then they were able to handle 8 each and I could also run my other machines at the same time (the induction furnace is a hungry beast). After upgrading to an MFSU/MVT, I'm able to use a dozen overclockers in my machines and everything hums along nicely - each task is completed almost instantly. Sure, it's power-hungry, but my wind farm is almost as effective as a small reactor so it refills the MFSU pretty quickly.


    There are still applications for which the Advanced Machines are a better choice, but when you've got endgame-level power generation, you can get more performance from seriously overclocked machines, as long as they have the other upgrades installed.

    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand." - Bertrand Russell