[IC2 Exp][1.7.10] Advanced Machines 1.1.6

    Solymr


    Well, you were certainly right in one regard, the Machines were in fact drawing more power than they should have ...



    Version 3.5b

    • fixed ancient Energy bug from 3.2 or earlier, resulting in too much Power draw
    • fixed Advanced Machines stopping work when Energy Buffer was empty but Momentum still present
    • fixed Explosion console spam on Bukkit
    • raised Base max Speed to 7500

    I've tested v3.5b macerating full Iron Ore Stacks with a Macerator and a Rot. Macerator, both having 2 Transformer Upgrades, 8 Overclockers, and hooked up to a previously filled and no longer filling MFSU.
    From nothing, the Macerator wins in both Speed and EU. (AS INTENDED)
    However, if i speed the AdvancedMachine up to peak spin beforehand, it is 2x faster as the Macerator, and uses only about half as much power. (AS INTENDED)
    I'm updating the google Spreadsheet with the "fixed" values.



    Fact remains Overclock Upgrades on IC2 machines are ridiculously overpowered, where AdvancedMachines benefit more subtly.




    Silentspy


    Why thank you

    I'm about to do some testing with these and have a couple questions. Do these machines take medium voltage by default like they used to? If so, it takes a single transformer upgrade to run off an MFSU, correct?

    I feel I have to highly agree with the opinions of others whom have posted on this thread. When I first heard of Advanced Machines, they were extremely cool and a cost-effective upgrade to the normal base machines. They did more work with the same or less energy, but needed a redstone signal, which is a balanced trade-off. However, now that you have implemented the use of overclockers and needing transformer upgrades, I feel you have completely gone away from the intent of this mod. A mere port to IC2 1.70 would have been fine. That is all any of us wanted. We didn't want overclockers, or a base tier of low voltage or different speeds and stuff. I personally hate overclockers, because I think they are a waste of resources. Yes, they make the basic machines a bit more efficient, and that is what they were intended for, to make the basic machines have faster processing speeds at later stages in the game, but this? This is just too much. For example, the max speed of the rot. mac. was always 10,000. Now to get that, I have to use 5 overclockers? That is not right. I shouldn't have to use anything whatsoever. I should have to just make the machine, plug into a cable, place a lever on the side and be ready to use it in about a minute. Same thing with the singularity compressor, same with the centrifuge extractor. These upgrades actually detract from the mod, and make the mod useless in my opinion. Likewise, the word advanced should tell you just what this mod does. Advanced means an increased intelligence. That means, the machine should know what kind of power it is hooked up to, it should know if there is a red stone signal being applied to it, it should know how fast it is spinning, and the fastest it should spin/compress/extract. By adding these upgrades, I honestly feel like these so called advanced machines are now just upgraded upgraded machines; meaning that the machines are upgrades to old machines, but still need upgrades to function as they once did.


    Here is a real world example of what has happened here:
    You go to a dealership and buy a new car. After using the car for some time, a newer version of the car comes out, so you buy that one. Now, let's say one day you do a race of sorts just to see if the new car was indeed better than the old one. Turns out the old one was better. So you take it to a guy named Bob(filler name), and Bob essentially tells you that in order to get the car onto the same par as the previous one, you have to add an air intake, a turbo, nitrus, and a new engine. Now tell me, doesn't that sound completely absurd? Sure does to me. This is what has happened here, they are still advanced machines by name, but to get them onto the same par as the old ones, you gotta add all these stupid upgrades which are a waste of money if you could have just kept the old ones.

    My suggestion:
    Release a no-frills version of the mod; an updated version of Beta 3.2 ported to IC2 1.70 with the updates the pwned has done and has fewer bugs. And I say post them in this thread, so that all the versions are in one central place. That way people who like the machines the way they were can have their machines working with the current IC2, and the people who like to add upgrades tot heir machines can use the ones you have posted. Either that, or add a config option to disable the upgrades portion of the mod, but I feel that would take a lot more of unnecessary code.


    You can ignore my suggestion all together, that doesn't bother me, as I will be using the outdated Beta 3.2 until a version comes out that is not completely insanely different from the original concept of the mod.


    Also, instead of doing all this upgrade stuff, (which I deem is unnecessary) you could have come up with upgraded versions of the other basic machines.


    Oh, and I would love for there to be combined version of solar arrays and adv. machines together again. That was convenient for the people who wanted both. Still have the separate mods, but have a combined version for the people who want both.


    My 2 cents.


    Zach

    kinda too noisy..


    to be honest its not like i dont like the noises coming from my workshop but to have it constantly going for 3+ hours while doing some cosmetic work on my base is getting quite aggrivating.


    so if possible can there be a way to not have to hear the adv machines with out me turning down my speakers/mc's volume or maybe only have them produce sound when in actual operation and not when a rs signal is applied?


    just a thought...

    Agreed.

    Just go to the config and disable the sounds...

    Just got home, did some testing. 8 OC upgrades on 512eu packets with 2 trans upgrades. Rot. Mace takes 35 seconds for a full stack to be processed, Macerator takes twice that. Macerator is pulling about 150-200 Eu/t at this point, Rot. Macerator showing barely any pull whatsoever. Promising yes? I upped it to 13 OC upgrades, 5 energy storage upgrades and 2 trans again for each. Barely any change in the Rot. Macerator, 30 seconds processing time for a full stack. HOWEVER, at 13 upgrades, the base Macerator still steams through a full stack in 13 seconds. It does pull an insane amount (900eu/t about) but does the job in nearly a third of the time.


    My point? If you're going to use upgrades, you might as well just invest the materials you would have in a Rot. Macerator and go for a base macerator and throw 13 OC upgrades in. You're already making 5 OC upgrades just to get the Rot. Mace back to the speed zip had it had.


    I think the point is still evident that upgrades and advanced machines just simply do not mix, it throws the equation out and you might as well just upgrade base units and save the resources you would going to invest in a Advanced machine anyway. As others have echoed, the best and most simple solution is to just leave them as they were, don't try to balance them with upgrades and keep them seperate from the whole upgrade system. As it is, this has completed turned the concept on its head and is not the Advanced Machines so many of us were hanging out for. Advanced Machines aren't overpowered, esp not in the face of the current system of upgrades. Why force people into a system that works better and scales better on the base machine anyway? If you want to push the mod further than the old concept, sure, do that. Don't call it Advanced Machines then, because this isn't that mod anymore.


    Offer a "vanilla" version, where Advanced Machines are as they were, and develop as a side the balancing with upgrades or at the very least allow people to change the base speed/power to the previous values in a configuration setting. 3.5b is better than 3.5, but it still is a very different mod to Advanced Machines. I also do think I remember reading that zip didn't want to merge upgrades in with them, but that might be just wishful thinking on my part.


    I agree with this, the way the machines worked originally was much better than it is now. I also agree that there should be 2 seperate versions like you suggested - a ported (bug fixed?) version of the old Advandced Machines, and the version that is now out. So those who don't want to worry about upgrades don't have to, and those who like them, can use them :)


    But also if pwnedgod keeps it ported and updated on the other thread thats cool, but would be much simpiler if they were both here :)

    Compared to the original, v3.5b only changes 2 things:


    Max default Speed: reduced from 10.000 to 7.500
    Default power draw: 1 (+ bugged 15) EU/t -> 3 EU/t - yes its actually less now
    The Voltage change doesnt really matter, LV is more than enough to cover the drain



    I cannot change Overclockers, how OP they are, and i flatly refuse to make them as OP on Advanced Machines.



    If you want the 'old' AdvancedMachines i suggest you go to pwnedgods straight port here
    http://forum.industrial-craft.…ad&postID=42957#post42957

    The power use isn't the main problem. it's the speed, and the fact to have the speed the old machines have, you might as well spend the ref iron used to make the advanced machine on OC upgrades and stick with the base machine, 13 OC upgrades in a base macey and you're blitzing faster than Rot. maceys ever could dream of. It sucks power, but that's more of a burst thing for a small period and you're probably already using multiple MFSU's at this point anyway. With that logic in mind, it just negates the need for the advanced machines in the form that 3.5b presents them.


    I did try the port from pwnedgod, however it does have the gui issues I believe? If I'm wrong, I'll gladly eat my words there. But this isn't really "Advanced Machines", this is pretty much it's half-brother Bort.

    Quote from Solymr


    I did try the port from pwnedgod, however it does have the gui issues I believe? If I'm wrong, I'll gladly eat my words there. But this isn't really "Advanced Machines", this is pretty much it's half-brother Bort.


    What GUI issues?

    I think he refers to the server gui issues. Where the machines didn't work. Pwnedgod does the client you posted fix the majority of bugs and make em workable in server? Also are we using the 3.2 beta 2 server? If not wheres the bukkit download?

    Quote from Silentspy

    they take low voltage by default (i lost one trying) :P, so if you want MFSU directly into it you gotta do 2

    Well that tears it. Looks like we have a New Coke situation on our hands here. I'll be avoiding this from now on unless someone releases Advanced Machines Classic.

    I liked advanced machines the way they were.. WE ALL DID.. now we have this abomination using the new stupid OCers and all of that abomination the IC2 team spit out.. I hate those upgrades witha passion and I guess I'll just stay at a version of ic2 prior to 1.7 because these machines... No thank you, they aren't even advanced machines anymore. Unless Pwnedgods version of them works fine then I'll be staying where I'm at.


    You really shouldn't take someones work then just destroy it.. You should follow the ORIGINAL representation of the mod instead of just completely tossing zipps machines out the window and making your own.. might as well call this a different mod. Ugh so upset.


    First off, I don't think you understood my post clearly. I'm not asking you to change Overclockers, or anything of that nature. Since obviously all of what you did was hard to code, I'm not going to ask you to change it. What I merely wanted was for there to be TWO VERSIONS of this mod in ONE CENTRAL location. The version that you have been working on, and a bug fixed IC2 1.7.1 Version of the classic advanced machines. That way people who wanted the classic machines can use them on the new version of IC2.


    Secondly, don't call them 'old' machines--it makes it sound as if they were bad--if it weren't for the way they were originally designed,none of us would be sitting here complaining now, would we? We all loved the machines just the way they were. So do us a favor, and take the last update pwnedgod did, compile it(or whatever that is called) and put the download here (the full classic advanced machines, yes, that includes the solar arrays).


    Also, a tip for future mod updating, should you insist on changing a mod drastically from it's original design, please take care to do two things.


    1. Ask permission from the mod creator.
    In this case, I don't think this is the atrocity that zipp would have wanted. He may have gone away for a while, which is normal, people have lives. However, I'm quite confident in saying that he would have been fine with the updating to the newer version of IC2, but not this nonsense.


    2. Ask the people who use the mod what they want added/removed before drastically changing anything.
    I'm sure if you would have asked us, we would have told you to not implement these changes that you have implemented. OR, if you insist on making drastic changes, take care to upload two versions, the classic version, and keep that updated to the current IC2 version, and the changed version. That way you won't have people gripping and complaining because you fixed something that didn't need to be fixed, or this sucks or that or the other. You could have honestly saved yourself a lot of work if you had asked us what we wanted. As a matter of fact, if you look at the thread that zipp created, you would see that close to no one wanted these 'upgrades' to be implemented into the machines. The most drastic thing people wanted was a separate download.


    Please don't take this as me attacking you, for as I said before, it doesn't matter to me if you take my suggestion or not. But I do know that you would please a lot of people if you did take my suggestion. A lot of people liked the machines the way they were before, so you would save yourself some headaches and possibly swearing if you did. But, I should warn you, that if you ignore my suggestion, people are going to continue to complain and flame and all sorts of stuff because this is not what they want.


    happy coding,
    Zach

    Quote from Qweets

    I liked advanced machines the way they were.. WE ALL DID.. now we have this abomination using the new stupid OCers and all of that abomination the IC2 team spit out.. I hate those upgrades witha passion and I guess I'll just stay at a version of ic2 prior to 1.7 because these machines... No thank you, they aren't even advanced machines anymore. Unless Pwnedgods version of them works fine then I'll be staying where I'm at.


    You really shouldn't take someones work then just destroy it.. You should follow the ORIGINAL representation of the mod instead of just completely tossing zipps machines out the window and making your own.. might as well call this a different mod. Ugh so upset.

    I agree with you 100%. And I state so in my post above.

    Suggestion:


    Rename to 'Abominable Machines'.

    ...What? There's no pineapples here.


    GENERATION Pineapple: The first pineapple you see, copy it into your sig on any forum and add sqrt(-1) to the generation. Pineapple experiment.