The one and only [OFFICIAL] Technic discussion thread.

    1) No,if you downloaded the mods from their pages yourself.
    2) No, only if you don't include the mod itself with the launcher, in other words, there should be a special carpet or some user defined location where you downloaded all the mods, the launcher can from there install the mods however you specified.
    3) No, but you should do it privately, only you and your friends are allowed to share it. Mostly because of a privacy things making it hard to tell who shared the mod and who didn't
    4) No, as long as you have the permission from the mod developers, they DO have a right to decide how they want their work to be distributed. Sharing download links from the developers its not a bad thing, but sharing your OWN personal link can be seen as a bad thing, once again depending if you have permission from the devs because they have a right to decided how they want their work to be distributed. This is because you are making a public sharing of sorts. Modpacks/Texturepacks/Configpacks fall under this category.


    5) Not exactly, im still trying to piece everything together, but any mod made from forge/modloader which is made by editing and recompiling the minecraft code basically inherits any copyright minecraft have, at least according to the Berne Convention (This convention also states that any work you make gains automatic copyright whenever you request it or not and yes a lot of countries are signatories of this convention including Sweden, Germany and USA ). This piece of text its from a coder i know that have a better grasping on it:

    Edit: A response from a question i recently made him:


    You know, I have a somewhat relevant question: why do mod authors care about mod packs? I mean, we're not making money here, so why do we need to play Fortune 500 company while we're playing Minecraft?


    Edit to add: Don't misunderstand, I'm not advocating that mod authors shouldn't be able to choose their methods of distribution. My question is, why does it matter?

    i personally don't care about the modpack debate but i can see how some would be mad if a mod pack somehow found a way to make money off a mod they didn't write

    true balance is impossible in video games the best one can hope for is to make it really hard to guess which of 2 choices are better.
    and remember kids "NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF JOKES!"

    • Official Post
    Quote from narc

    Edit to add: Don't misunderstand, I'm not advocating that mod authors shouldn't be able to choose their methods of distribution. My question is, why does it matter?


    I personally prefer picking those who are permitted to boost their popularity by using IC² in their modpack.
    As well, I (ab)use the permission-giving to ensure all IC²-modpacks are "forced" to have RP in as well. ("forced", because so far there was only a single modpack request which was about a modpack not containing RP. Which got added upon my request)

    Quote from Alblaka

    I personally prefer picking those who are permitted to boost their popularity by using IC² in their modpack.
    As well, I (ab)use the permission-giving to ensure all IC²-modpacks are "forced" to have RP in as well. ("forced", because so far there was only a single modpack request which was about a modpack not containing RP. Which got added upon my request)


    I know I said I wasn't going to post again but I think some stats are in order.


    Forums:
    Ic2: 5,922 Members
    Technic: 17,806 Members


    I'm sorry but that is exactly the argument they're making on the subject of mod developer attitude. They have reached the point where it doesn't hurt their popularity if your mod is removed. If anything, it hurts the mods popularity not being in the pack (as anecdotally evidenced by the number of people that have never heard of IC until technic pack or had no interest in trying it). 3 times as many people are playing IC through technic pack than they are by downloading and installing all the relevant API's and IC2 itself. Even if you ignore the technic mod pack, the launcher still reaches about 3 times as many people.


    So rather than the blind, illogical hate, why not create an IC2 modpack for the launcher? Nothing but the required API's, IC2, and maybe some featured IC2 addons. Not only does it fit your ideology (or at least what's been posted), it would provide more users, faster. That means more donations, more revenue from adsense, more discussion, more bug reports, et cetera. All the stuff that makes life worth living.

    • Official Post


    All I can say is wow. How mislead have you been to think that EVERYONE who plays IC2 has made an account on the forums? If anyone is blind or illogical it is you! By removing a mod from said modpack, would hardly influence the amount of people that play said mod, because those who want to play it and are intelligent enough to install it, will. If they aren't then they need to do something other than waste good peoples time with "Tis mod dont wrk and suxz ballzz!!!!!!" And another thing, who ever said that we care if the mod is popular. Granted I haven't worked on/played IC recently, but when I did, I really didn't care what people thought of it, I just liked working on it. And why the heck is a modpack needed for a single mod!?!?!?! Modpack == multiple mods, oh and i found this hilarious...


    Quote from ErusPrime

    it would provide more users, faster. That means more donations, more revenue from adsense, more discussion, more bug reports, et cetera. All the stuff that makes life worth living.


    1. It would slow dev down a bit having to throw it into launcher/whatever, not much but work mentioning
    2. $ doesn't make us work
    3. More discussion for you means more nubs that don't know crap
    4. More bug reports, I think we have enough
    5. Life worth living, if you need minecraft to live, you are a sad sad little man



    P.S. I would like to apologize to the local Certified Asshole (TradeMark pending) for taking his job, but it needed done ;)


    EDIT: Format/Spelling

    Lesson 1: Watch over your crops....

    Quote from alexthesax

    P.S. I would like to apologize to the local Certified Asshole (TradeMark pending) for taking his job, but it needed done ;)

    Not at all, nobody said there can only be one Asshole in the house.


    And i have one little question for the ones that visit the technic forums, do they have ads?

    Quote from alexthesax


    All I can say is wow. How mislead have you been to think that EVERYONE who plays IC2 has made an account on the forums? If anyone is blind or illogical it is you! By removing a mod from said modpack, would hardly influence the amount of people that play said mod, because those who want to play it and are intelligent enough to install it, will. If they aren't then they need to do something other than waste good peoples time with "Tis mod dont wrk and suxz ballzz!!!!!!" And another thing, who ever said that we care if the mod is popular. Granted I haven't worked on/played IC recently, but when I did, I really didn't care what people thought of it, I just liked working on it. And why the heck is a modpack needed for a single mod!?!?!?! Modpack == multiple mods, oh and i found this hilarious...


    I considered that possibility and the same logic can be applied to the technic pack so the bias was corrected for. In fact, if you want me to get the math together, I expect that point would be less in your favor than you think it is.
    As for the modpack, the way the launcher works is by using spout to inject the files from modpack.jar into minecraft.jar at launch without making permanent changes. The reason it's necessary is it allows them to create a base modpack that has modloader, modloadermp, forge, and whatever other prerequisites there are for the specific combination of mods going into it. The reason this is useful is because yogs, voxel, hack/mine, and a few others have their own dependencies so it makes updating and serving to the user a lot faster.
    If you only like working on the mod and don't care about the rest, why argue that modpacks are a bad thing?


    Quote from alexthesax


    1. It would slow dev down a bit having to throw it into launcher/whatever, not much but work mentioning
    2. $ doesn't make us work
    3. More discussion for you means more nubs that don't know crap
    4. More bug reports, I think we have enough
    5. Life worth living, if you need minecraft to live, you are a sad sad little man


    1) It's really not more work. It was designed to be less work getting multiple mods out to people and was successful. I actually plan on making my own little modpack based on the core technic mods. So it makes it a lot easier for users to install as well. Also easier to recover if you screw up.
    2) So with this point and the fact that you just like working on it, you have no point in your argument, just lots of words.
    3) that's pretty much the MC user base. Even with 20k users only 20-30 are relevant on the technic forums.
    4) If you don't know something is wrong, how can you fix it or make it better? The lack of proper debug is kind of a major problem with game design these days. MC shouldn't be in full release yet but it's no longer considered alpha/beta/RC.
    5) You code java because you like it. "That's not a very high horse from which to look down upon others," he said from eye level. I enjoy minecraft. I only argue this point because it is an illogical argument. I try to see things from all angles and provide a solution or opinion based on what would be the best for everyone involved instead of just one side. That generally means a sacrifice is required on one or more sides. I'm really interested in the reasons for the beliefs people have chosen in all sides of this issue. I really don't care either way how things turn out. The launcher is out there now and I'll continue to use this system to install my mods until something better comes along.


    You do know that IC2 actually does belong to Alblaka. In fact, Mojang ONLY owns the mods that distribute baseclasses, and only the baseclasses of said mods. All the other mods contain none of Mojang's code, and therefore are not Mojang's property. If they were, it would be like making Windows, then claiming that everything containing any code that runs on windows your property.


    In any case, Technic/tekkit only violate SirSengnir (Forestry) And perhaps railcraft, and some smaller mods without copyrights. And forestry is being removed because he's being an asshole who hates compatibility and Forestry is now technically malware, due to the fact that it contains code that does nothing but crash minecraft.

    Quote

    It has become a little stubbly. Implement facial hair growth in IC²? Vision continuously grows more furry until you shave. (approx once every 2 minecraft days ;P)


    Steve shaves with his chainsaw.
    Check out Factorio- A game where you build a factory from scratch.

    Tecnically sirsengi its only being an asshole for not wanting the compatibility with the technic pack. I seriously doubt he keep active those landmines he created for people that don't use tecnic (Quite honestly i don't actually know how his landmine works or what does it do)


    Also i hate when people just fly by my actually informative posts :(, in here i sort of talked about copyright for minecraft code and mods. Although IC2 does not modify or include any base file itself, it depends on a tool that does (Forge and Modloader), so any copyright behind forge and minecraft also applies to IC2 + IC2 own copyright.


    But yeah, IC2 Code BELONGS to Alblaka (Or better said, the DevTeam behind IC2). Mojang do not owns IC2 Code although if Mojang wants to they can make illegal further (Notice how i used further? They can not make illegal any modding that has already been done... I think :P need to check.) modding of Minecraft, but thats it, even if that worst case scenario where to happen IC2 Code Still belongs to the IC2 Devteam.

    Quote from FenixR

    Tecnically sirsengi its only being an asshole for not wanting the compatibility with the technic pack. I seriously doubt he keep active those landmines he created for people that don't use tecnic (Quite honestly i don't actually know how his landmine works or what does it do)


    Also i hate when people just fly by my actually informative posts :(, in here i sort of talked about copyright for minecraft code and mods. Although IC2 does not modify or include any base file itself, it depends on a tool that does (Forge and Modloader), so any copyright behind forge and minecraft also applies to IC2 + IC2 own copyright.


    But yeah, IC2 Code BELONGS to Alblaka (Or better said, the DevTeam behind IC2). Mojang do not owns IC2 Code although if Mojang wants to they can make illegal further (Notice how i used further? They can not make illegal any modding that has already been done... I think :P need to check.) modding of Minecraft, but thats it, even if that worst case scenario where to happen IC2 Code Still belongs to the IC2 Devteam.


    sengir is removing it and it won't be distributed as part of the pack but it also won't keep users from installing it themselves anymore (which many are still planning to do). I won't because he violated my trust.


    I think the point that a lot of modpack supporters are trying to make is, how does it actually hurt the mod development or creator if it's used and distributed in a modpack?

    I'd also like to add a huge thank you to the people actually discussing it and being civil. ErusPrime likes this :thumbup:

    1) You are violating the rights of the Mod developers IF they have said they do not want their works to be included in their mod pack. They don't really need a reason, its their own right so the least you could do is respect it. Your rights ends the moment the rights of someone else start.


    2) They take away site/download traffic from the developers, this depends on what the particular dev wants, some doesn't have Donate links and they instead depends on ads (Like i told you, depends on the particular dev) or addfly links.


    Quite honestly most of the arguments modpack (Or in this particular case technic and tekkit) fans is that they think they have more rights than the moddevs themselves and that it doesn't matter that modpacks takes the mod and add it without the devs knowing about it. You don't know if so much publicly actually hurts the devs or not, or that people rather download the modpack from somewhere else than the dev site/download links.


    The devs are doing this for free, sometimes they ask for donations or put ads/addfly links so they can worry less about how they are going to pay some bills or buy food, for their own entertainment and learning, the act of coding can itself be fun and constantly coding its a good way to master or learn a lot more about the language (In this case Java), and the least everyone can do for them its to respect their rights and decisions on how they want things to go about their mods. Quite honestly is that something really hard to do?


    And do note that the fact that its free doesn't mean its a free-for-all where you can do anything you want with it simply because its free, being free only means you don't have to pay any kind of money for it, but you are still required to follow any rules or guidelines that particular free things impose of you.

    Quote from FenixR

    1) You are violating the rights of the Mod developers IF they have said they do not want their works to be included in their mod pack. They don't really need a reason, its their own right so the least you could do is respect it. Your rights ends the moment the rights of someone else start.

    This can't be stressed enough. It doesn't matter if you disagree or question their reasons or just think they're being silly, the content author has the right to determine how their content is distributed.


    There's a lot of disagreement about whether or not the code used in mods qualifies for copyright protection or not. Does a mod like IC2 count as a derivative work or not? We each have our opinion but the fact of the matter is that it is a grey area and probably will remain so unless specific law is written to cover it or a court of law hands down a judgement thereby setting precedence. So we can quote all the laws we want or point out that Mojang's TOS uses the word plugin (a word without legal definition, btw - ever notice how bukkit "mods" are called plugins :D) but its all rather pointless beyond being an interesting topic of debate.


    Now, having said all that, there is one thing in most mods that the people who argue that mods have no copyright protection either forget or ignore, and that's original artwork. All original artwork, be it a painting, sound recording or even, yes, a little 16x16 texture for a mod, enjoys copyright protection and, as pointed out earlier in the thread, it is automatic upon creation. So this means that by distributing any mod that contains original artwork without the author's prior consent you are guilty of copyright infringement. So yes, a mod author could sue, it'd be rather silly due to the costs involved but it is their right to do so. However there is a free alternative that a mod author could use if they chose to, and that's filing a DMCA takedown with the infringer's file host, isp, or even their domain name registrar. To my knowledge, no one has done it but it a viable option that only requires a little homework.


    I'm enjoying the civil parts of the debate and just wanted to give a little food for thought. ;)

    Quote from FenixR

    And i have one little question for the ones that visit the technic forums, do they have ads?

    There are some adds on the sides of the forum but that's about it. No adfly links, no "offshore paypal accounts" it looks like there is just enough to keep the site afloat.


    Personally I don't feel Technic/Tekkit should be discussed here other than in the context of IC^2's interaction with the other mods in the pack. However I don't feel it's mention should be a bannable offense as it smacks of (unwarranted?) hatred. This is a forum for the discussion of IC^2. Technic has their own forums with people who are ready to handle Technic issues.

    • Official Post

    Lolz, well I suppose there might be enough room in here for the two of you, I'll let you guys drill him.

    Lesson 1: Watch over your crops....

    -stumbles in nimbling a cookie- o.o... ummmm -nibbles cookie- I like Technic cause it simplifies the downloading of mods if I didn't have it I would've crashed my computer like last time. -nibbles cookie- But then I go directly to the mod authors and donate that way. -quickly runs out before anything is thrown at me for blasphemy-

    Also Erusprime. I don't know where you got that 20,000 number from? You're not involved in Technic so did you just round up forums users? That number isn't reflective of the number using technic or the launcher. Either way, please don't try and start dick waving matches with people the Technic team actually have permissions from. I don't know why you thought that would be a good idea. You're quite active on our forums, so you should know better.



    More to the point. The views of a bunch of kids/adults/combo who play Minecraft do not represent the views of the technic team in any way shape or form.We can't go around policing the internet, nor do we want to, nor should we be expected to, but holy would people stop dragging pointless drama all over the place? That goes for everyone. I don't care if you hate technic, or love it. Having giant uninformed arguments where no one really knows what they're talking about is pointless and childish. It's not like a heated forum argument ever changed anyone's minds anyway. It's hard enough for US to do that without the entire internet involved.

    I originally wanted to write a long post explaining why I, an opensource software developer, think bitching about modpacks is rather stupid thing to do but I'll just leave this little bit of information:


    Technicpack serves around 1TB (~1000 GB or 1,000,000MB) of data per day to it's users.


    How many mod authors have the resources to offer similar service?
    How many of the individual mods get anywhere near the exposure as they do inside technicpack?


    Also without the pack I'd still be playing vanilla. Some mods are pretty nice but I simply don't have the time to combine the stuff I like myself and I'd simply wouldn't do it at all if I was forced to.