[Suggestion] Machine wear/breakdown mechanic

  • The idea of machines requiring some extra attention is fine, it will add some realistic complexity. After all it's not fun to just repeat and polish one and only factory design. The only concern is the correct implementation that will not hinder the creation of new automated designs.
    Let me ask - why are you playing MC with IC2?

    Well not because i want to be a maintenance guy

  • No one is talking about "you will have to change your machines every now and then without any other options", you know. It would be wrong and I will be amongst the ones who complain.
    But just denying the suggestion is same as suggesting something extreme.

  • Should i continue or you catch my drift?

    What Rick said.

    There is a difference between a player being annoyed because he has to come over a challenge, and a game that purposely annoys the player. The later should be avoided under all circumstances because it will just make the game bad. Wear down of machines without any reason other than to rebuild them using a meaningless fraction of the resources available has approximately the same appeal as the infamous Skyrim 1 minute loading screen: you sit there and wait for about a minute till you can continue to play the game.

  • There is a difference between a player being annoyed because he has to come over a challenge, and a game that purposely annoys the player.

    So, you're convinced that any machine weardown mechanic that could be implemented is guaranteed to be of the latter? This is incredibly strange to me, as I've been playing IC since before it was IC2 and I've yet to see Alblaka implement a game mechanic that doesn't give you something back for the trouble of managing it.

    Now, I admit this thread has gotten incredibly long and I haven't read back through it, but I didn't think we were given any indication of how the IC2 team were thinking of implementing this breakdown mechanic -- and if that's true, then we really can't complain ahead of time simply because we don't know what it'll be like.

    If it does turn out to be a terrible implementation, then it'll be time to start complaining -- or switching to another mod, like Thermal Expansion, which does similar things in different ways.

  • On the subject of making the game more difficult/time consuming, I have a couple suggestions, and I'm going to use this opportunity to talk about them.

    - Incorporate a system that randomly deletes a users entire map. It's a feature NOT a bug!
    - Create a thread to monitor who's a real bad dude by keeping track of who can complete "super hardcore challange mode" which involves smashing your hands and face with a hammer, then playing through the excruciating pain and partial blindness. Pics or gtfo.
    - When a user dies once implant malicious code in their system that steals all their banking information and hands it to Barister Hong Manata, or some Nigerian "lawyer".
    - If a reactor melts down, use a script to flash their BIOS and overclock their computers processor. Only losers use stock heatsinks anyway, amirite?
    - Build custom electric shock-collars that send near fatal amounts of electricty through a user when they get electrocuted in game.
    - Require a blood sacrafice of a users first born child to get to the "end game" stage. Substitute family or freinds are acceptable if they have no children (sorry, grandma).

    I for one would quit my job, stop paying all my bills, stop tending to my yard and house, give up my social life and naturally forgo any other computer game just to recieve the honor and SSI checks that would come with a playing such a manly and challanging game. And before anyone disagrees with me, let me rebute your articulate and well thought out response with this insult: your stupid and lazy. Phew, that covers it! Time for me to change my depends and get back to building my scale model of the milky way galaxy with diamond blocks (all legit, of course).

  • I find it baffling that the only reason 3 to 5 people in this thread have given against is this suggestion is "Boohoo my automatic shit Boohoo".

    And i also though rick was smart, guess not, hey buddy weardown its also a challenge, whenever it interferes with your "Boohoo my automatic shit Boohoo" or not does not change his status of a challenge.

    Since the whining of the people that only play "Autocraft" its getting annoying and annoying im gonna throw you a bone:

    How about creative/adventure mode = No Weardown.
    Regular PEACEFUL Survival play = No weardow
    Regular Survival play = Weardown increase depending on the difficulty level
    Hardcore Survival Play = Extreme weardown

    A few other points to the people that didn't want to understand beyond "Boohoo my automatic shit will break Boohoo":

    -SMP immersion/roleplaying will get a little better, making you hire people to watch your machines while you are away OR if you play SSP Remember that unless you are using a chunkloader if you travel to far your machines will unload stopping the weardown.

    -The weardown WILL NOT, i repeat, WILL NOT Happen immediately, depending on the difficulty level it could take from days to weeks. So you can lazily check your machines every now and then.

    And i find it moronic of my part that i forgot to include this one in my previous post:

    -Durability in Weapon/Armors? Boohoo i want to use my enchanted stuff forever or don't them to break in the middle of a fight its just annoying to the player.

    That one its the most close example to the weardown mechanic, and that its considered a challenge...

  • Wow... For once we are in the same side :D

    I totally agree, machine weardown and respective maintanance is a real factor in real life. Also, it would encourage people to build their machines and cables with maintanance acess.

    Also, for the real HUrr Durr Autocraft players, by using a redpower combination you can build a automatic maintance system, after all, you are playing the game to have fun and resolve challanges, not to sit in a chair and watch "automatic" stuff going trough.

    The Viper will hide in the shadows... unseen... unheard... and when you least expect, she strikes.

  • We have all this drama 'bout "autocraft" is not as manly and cool than having to babysit the machines 24/7, and we all forgot about the bonus of having a well oiled machine.

    Cuz if theres no bonus for a machine in a good conditions, that thing will be only fun for singleplayer, and forever-happy-lookhowawesomeismymonument-nonPVP server.

    And will be nice if the weardown rate could be configurable, like 25% weardown every 25 processings.

  • I think this one of these features that some people for some strange reason find fun until it happens in the game several time. Then it gets boring and then annoying, and then they realize why people were against it in the first place.

    However as long as it comes with a config change, whatever, maybe it will make 2 or 3 people happy as they can now babysit their machines.

  • -snip-

    Yeah, it's like we aren't playing the game if we automate the processor of standing next to the machines inserting ores and whatnot into them and collecting the products. It actually allows me to do something else than craft waste 15 minutes of my time on crafting 20 nuclear reactors or [insert an often crafted object here]. The fun part is that you just said that it's fun and challenging to just stand there fixing the machines constantly. If this gets implemented I'll just want a config option to turn it off, not something that forces me to play on peaceful.

  • I'm completely okay with this as long as there is a config option, I don't want IC2 to determine what difficulty I play on just because I don't want my machines to break down every 100 operations or so (FenixR, as the lead pusher of this, do you have an actual number in mind?Tthis is just Alec White's one). Personally I see no use at all for quantum or really even nano if I'm playing on peaceful, and I don't think we should implement mechanics that make it so if people want "Autocraft" they have to lose other aspects of the game.

    Is the answer to this question no?


    Hey don't take it so hard. Ignorance is part of this generation it seems. -the wise words of XFmax-o-l

  • Excuse me. I missed that moment when automation was considered to be "bad".
    I mean, come on! This is INDUSTRIAL craft, and what kind of industry it is supposed to be without automation? ManufacturingCraft?
    Anyways, idea is not that bad, but possible implementation may be horrible. And I just confused about that "Herpderp, automation is bad!!! Kill it with fire!!!"

    Cutiemark crusaders - engineers, Yay!
    Blown up: Industrial Blast Furnace, Industrial Wiremill, Singularity compressor, Extractor.

  • Excuse me. I missed that moment when automation was considered to be "bad".
    I mean, come on! This is INDUSTRIAL craft, and what kind of industry it is supposed to be without automation? ManufacturingCraft?
    Anyways, idea is not that bad, but possible implementation may be horrible. And I just confused about that "Herpderp, automation is bad!!! Kill it with fire!!!

    Automation is not bad, its a part of Industrial craft and the Core of Buildcraft, as you pointed out. The problem is when people start doing automated devices for everything, simply firing it and never worry again. No maintenance check-up, not even decent access to the machines.

    When you set an Industry in real life, machine maintenance is something to be aware of.

    Also, personally, i think that the rates should be REAL low, like 1,5 minecraft weeks before you even CONSIDER starting to do maintenance.

    Also, it could be a well implemented, interesting system. To increase a machine condition, you right-click it with spare parts. Maybe you could use a machine of sorts to turn Buildcraft Oil into Lubrification Oil, that would reduce the rate at which your machines weardown.

    It wouldnt be a annoying repetitive task, but rather something rare, and machines recently fixed could have a "speed" boost.

    The Viper will hide in the shadows... unseen... unheard... and when you least expect, she strikes.

  • Simplest solution is make it a config option and let people play like they want to. automation or not it's up to them to choose. especialy for SSP, if we don't want weardown I really think we should be able to deactivate whether it's a good idea or not.

  • I like the idea behind additional considerations needed for big machines.
    However, executing that as stated in this thread is in my opinion not the way to execute it.

    It should be something that wears down overtime or just induces a negative buff on the machine instead of hard-destroying or hard-disabling it.
    Something like heat build-up/Damage over Time could be considered, along with a function/method that defines certain thresholds as borders between normal operation, excellent operation and damaged operation.
    The fact that I chose heat build-up is because of the following.(I know it was mentioned earlier, but it involved new GUI's, etc)

    1. It allows automation in a simplified manner, e.g., automation as we know it today, to not need extreme revamps.
    2. The mechanic is not at all bothersome, since you could essentially turn off machines in-time to prevent damage.

    Negative buffs could be:
    1. Slower operation.
    2. Failing to macerate ores correctly (Returning 1 dust instead of 2), no scrap produced.
    3. Less efficiency, more power consumption.
    4. Temporary stalls/power shut-downs.
    Ultimately too much heat would lead to machine death.
    However, it differs from the original idea in the fact that it IS preventable and not some 'Suddenly Machine LOL' -explosion.

    Positive buffs could be:
    1. Very slightly faster operation.
    2. Less power wasted.

    Heating up overtime, cooling down overtime, nearby water/iceblocks lower heatbuildup and quicken cooldown. However, not in the same manner as the nuclear generator, e.g. needing 20 blocks of water. It could be about 4 ice for severe slowdown of heat buildup.

    Another consideration is system-load.
    Imagine someone having 100 machines (Not talking about generators), how much load would all that heat-tracking cause?
    It could be a massive CPU sink.

    Especially this reason is the reason I'm doubting the mechanic.

    (And as FenixR said, difficulty could indeed affect speed of buildup.)


    Buildcraft – spilling items.™

  • I have a suggestion. Instead of having negative affects when things are under-maintained, how about positive affects when well-maintained? This will still nerf "Autocraft", because maintenance is needed, but not really kill it, instead, buffing non-autocraft.
    I suggest having a buff, let's say 20% efficiency and speed, on brand-new machines. This means that depending on how much you are producing, it might be better to simply craft new ones instead of repairing old ones. After, let's say, 10 stacks of processing, the buff has dropped to 10%. No repair work can slow or stop this decay, or bring it back up to the original totals. After, let's say, 20 stacks of operations, the buff will disappear, going back to the normals now. After 10 MORE stacks of processing, there becomes a negative penalty to production, say -10% efficiency and speed. Once it gets to this point, you can no longer go back to anything better than normal speeds. This will encourage frequent care, instead of small, little repairs.
    One last thing. If you are going to make new machines, what do you do with the old ones? Recycle them for spare parts, of course. You could use these to repair machines, and would put some dead machines to some use.

    Questions about what I said? Just ask. I'm probably not very clear, so just ask if you don't get something.
    (BTW, my signature is cool)

    EDIT: Oh, and I thought this was obvious, but there should be ramps in between the different stages, not jumps of 10%.

    Haikus are poems

    They don't always make sense


  • I agree a bit with the 2 last post(except for me breaking machine is a godd idea, whit a very long time), as for making that machine are breakable but extremly slowly, but for buffing/reducing efficienty on short duration.
    Especially, +1 for XFmax-o-l.

    Soon with Molten Salt Reactors, right ? :D

  • So, ill make a resume of my personall expectations:

    - Well maintaned machines will work faster and consume less EU, also, they produce less noise.

    - Under-Maintaned machines will work slower, consume more EU, and be Noisier

    - Machines in horrible conditions (only happens in what, 2-3 mc weeks without maintanance?) will be NOISY AS HELL, work SLOW, Consume much more EU, and have a random chance of breakdowns (the machine isnt destroyed, it just will not work till you fix it.


    -Spare parts: made of a mix of copper, iron and tin, right clicking a machine will improve its conditions.

    - MAchine oil: made of slimeballs and bone meal (suggestion), they will reduce the rate at wich the machines weardown. after 1 week (?) the oil effects will disapear.

    Also, something to consider: Spare parts will be less effective the less condition the machine has. This effect will only be significant in a large time lapse (there will only be a noticeable difference in about 2 weeks)

    The Viper will hide in the shadows... unseen... unheard... and when you least expect, she strikes.