Multi-Tile Machines, Energy Storage, 3D Nuclear Reactors, and more

Okay, so originally the idea was, to add another, more advanced, but more expensive and space-consuming system of machines, where there are single-tile 'components' which would perform a specific function, in a way that is somehow better then their single-tile machines, but with various caveats.

Now, I'm kinda using this as a dump thread for my various, and somewhat interconnected ideas...

I'm also, kinda leaving a lot of the balancing up for discussion, not because I'm lazy, but because I'm not sure what would be considered 'balanced' to you guys.

Multi-Tile Machines:

The Macerator:

Rotary Macerator:

These single-tile, directional blocks will consume some amount of power every tick that they can, regardless of whether or not they perform any work. (this should be a common theme for multi-tile machine components, as they are not intended to be machines unto themselves, but merely pieces of a larger machine.) Every tick, or every so many ticks, they will check the tile they are facing for any items which they can macerate, and if so, have a percentage chance of macerating them. For one such macerator, the percentage would be something like a 25% chance every so many ticks, applied to one item in the block it's facing. (which should logically be air, and any other blocks, including maybe BC pipes, would get MACERATED!)
This may not seem like much, but the cool thing about these macerators, is that putting more facing the same tile will cause their percentages to stack, causing two rotary macerators to have twice the percentage of macerating an item every check, with four of them facing the same tile giving a 100% chance of macerating every check.
These are well-suited for what I call 'chute macerators, which are simply a downward tube with four of these facing the center, thus all you have to do is throw in a steady stream of items, and they'll fall to the bottom macerated.

These should, of course, be decently expensive, and be fairly EU-intensive, but should give the potential for higher efficiency and speed compared to normal macerators.

Example Recipe:

DWD
AOA
MBM
Where;
D = Diamonds
W = Wrench (for deconstructing the macerators, alternatively another diamond, or just nothing)
O = Obsidian
A = Advanced circuit
M = Macerator
B = Advanced machine block
And I'll leave EU/t and checks/t values up for discussion, though I believe that it should be something like one check every twenty ticks, allowing four to provide one macerated item every second... Which, would make them 20 times as fast as a single macerator. Therefore, to make them more efficient as well, they should have 15-16 times the total EU/t consumption, which is 30-32 EU/t in total, which is about 7.5-8 EU/t per rotary macerator.

Grinder:

Another method of macerating, these function in a way similar to the rotary macerator above, but instead of being faster and more efficient then a normal macerator, these guys have a percentage chance to provide greater yields from your ore.
Assuming these utilize the same system as the above, these will instead have a flat percentage chance to be macerated every check, regardless of how many are facing the same block. Instead, grinders have a 25% chance of producing an additional product from whatever is being macerated, with every additional grinder increasing this percentage by 25%, AND the fourth one will add an additional 25% chance to provide TWO additional products from maceration. There should, obviously, be exceptions to this extra maceration stuff, such as ingots and glowstone. (unless glowstone maceration is nerfed later)

Example Recipe:

DDD
OBO
AMA
Where;
D = Diamonds
O = Obsidian
B = Advanced Machine block
A = Advanced Circuits
M = Macerator
Note that this is more expensive then the Rotary Macerator, since this performs a more unique- and much more powerful- function.

As for EU/t and checks/t values, again up for discussion, and this seems a little harder to balance to me, but I think maybe having a 25% chance to macerate per check, and one check every 100 ticks, giving an average (I think) speed approximately equal to a normal macerator, but with its additional benefits. As such, I believe the total should be around 2 to 3 times the EU/t cost of a single macerator, which would be 4-6 EU/t, for 0.5-1.5 EU/t. (This also gives the interesting situation that a single Grinder is actually more energy efficent then a macerator, while also providing a 25% chance of an additional product. Considering the cost, I think this is perfectly fine. Alternatively, they could require 2 EU/t each, just like normal macerators.)

Grates/Meshes:

A block intended specifically for multi-block macerators, grates are essentially iron bar half-slabs, which allow any kind of macerated item, such as sand and dusts, to pass through. This allows one to make one large 'hopper' which you can throw your ore into and have macerators automatically macerate it for you. The dusts are then allowed to fall through, and you could easily simply plop them into a chest with a chute, or take it to a furnace with a conveyor, or whatever. (More on conveyors and chutes later)
A drawback to such a system, is that overloading it TOO much would cause your items to begin despawning,

Additionally, there may be options for sorting items when upgraded with certain minerals, where certain applicable items would have 'size values' added, and a grate can let anything with a size value lower then its max fall through it. These sorting grates could also have a natural slope to them, always facing the player upon placement, which would cause items to flow in the designated direction.

Meshes may also have other applications, but I can't think of any at the moment...

Conveyors and Chutes:

Conveyor Belts:

If these multi-tile machines are implemented, a way to transport items around (without relying on other mods) would certainly be very useful, while also adding additional depth to the automation aspects of this mod, in my opinion. (And even compared BC/RP pipes/tubes, I think this convey/chutes system I've thought up has more depth to it, if not quite as versatile.)

Basically, conveyor belts would do exactly what you'd expect them to do: they move items, and maybe mobs/players, when powered by a motor. (which will come next) This movement goes in the direction the motor block is placed, so motors could only be placed at the sides of one end of a conveyor chain, like so;

<<<<
M

Placing a motor anywhere else would simply do nothing, and there should be slots on the sides of both the belts and the motors to reflect this.
Also, as implied, this also means that conveyers can be linked together, and their textures should be able to reflect this. There are some additional caveats to this:

1. Conveyors cannot turn, instead requiring a new 'chain' of conveyors to be able to go in a new direction. (And requiring a new motor!) Conveyors should be rotatable with a wrench for this reason.

2. They can only go one way at a time, obviously, though perhaps providing a redstone current to a motor should reverse the direction.

3. They can go up and down like minecart tracks, but this is considered going in a new direction, and thus will require a new motor. (And maybe this should also, if going up, double the amount of EU/t each conveyor block requires? More on that later)

4. You can pick up items from conveyor belts, as normal, and they should react as normal items, merely being moved, similar to water.

5. The conveyor belt moves items above it, which should exist in the block above them, while the belt itself should be underneath that block, leaving it as air. This is important for certain machines, such as the macerators above, which would destroy the block otherwise.

6. Conveyors should prevent item despawning, if possible.

(That's all I can think of atm...)

Conveyors also have three versions: Slow (tin), normal (iron/refined iron, with refined iron maybe giving a few more blocks?), and fast (gold), which all use the same recipe, but with different ingots:

RRR
I I I
CCC
Where,
R = Rubber
I = Ingots
C = copper cables

And this recipe would produce 6 conveyor belt blocks. (Unless it should be more? Maybe tin and refined iron give 8, while gold and normal iron give 6?)

Motors:

Pretty much explained most of these up there, with these exceptions;

Motors would (obviously) require EU to run, and accept up to a maximum of 5 EU/t worth of load per motor. (Hooking them up to copper cables should be fine, though)
Additionally, every conveyor belt would have a different amount of EU/t it would require for every block running on the motor;
For tin, this is 0.1 EU/t per block
Iron is 0.25 EU/t per block
Gold is .5 EU/t per block

Additionally, motors have the possibility of powering two conveyor belts on both their front and back sides, but doing so will NOT increase their maximum EU/t load, so be warned!
You can also link two motors to a single conveyor, and they will split the load equally between themselves.

Upgrades:

This is actually two additions to the above conveyor systems;
One, is that placing either redstone, a redstone cable, (I'll go into these later) or just a normal cable on a conveyor belt will allow it to conduct a redstone, EU, or both a redstone and an EU current, respectively. (An additional caveat; conveyors cannot accept EU from their top, bottom, or the blocks immediately in front of the end chain blocks. It can accept redstone from all directions, however. Also, perhaps they should only accept copper and tin cables, both regular and redstone, as upgrades?)
Additionally, using Red Fiber Optic Cabling to upgrade a conveyor will cause that block to send a redstone current anytime an item is passing on top of that block, in addition to conducting EU and redstone.

TO BE CONTINUED...

EDIT:

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Haven't
read yet, not that i have any honest intention on doing so, but its
fair to warn you that alblaka doesn't like Multi Blocks machine due to
the lag generating mess that it could become.

That, is
something I hadn't considered... I have no idea how much potential these
things have at becoming lag-fests, and I suppose only a modder or
Alblaka himself could tell me how feasible any of these are...

Chutes:

These would be slides for items, basically. any
item which comes into contact with an open side will pop into the
chutes, similar to how obsidian pipes work in BC, but will maintain
their momentum. Also, items will gradually loose momentum whenever they
are on a level plane in a chute, and will slow down rapidly if they ever
try to go up. sliding downward, on the other hand, will speed them up
rather rapidly, making chutes a simple, cheap, and effective way to move
items downward. (And sideways, if you're creative.)
These would also
connect to each other in a way similar to BC pipes, but items will
always move downward if they can, no matter what. the models should
reflect this, and maybe they could use a connection scheme something
like a blend between BC pipes and minecart tracks?

Also, personally, I think there should be windows on the sides of the chutes, so one could how items are passing through, though if not that'd be fine.

Example recipe:

T T
Where; T = Tin ingot
This would produce anywhere from 4-8 chutes, depending on what everyone else thinks is balanced.

Yeah, that's really all I can think of on chutes... They're basically just BC pipes that don't need power, and go down forever.
Oh, and maybe they should also, so long as they're on the side or bottom sides of a block, and their slope is downward from the block they are connected to, then they will continually draw whatever is in that block/machine/whatever's inventory as is appropriate, at a bit faster rate then a redstone engine from BC.

Chute Gates:

Chute gates would simply be doors which would block and hold back items from passing through them, until a certain condition was met.
The simplest gate would be tin, and would open whenever a redstone signal was applied.
More advanced gates would, of course, be made of more advanced materials, and be capable of detecting different input values, with the REALLY advanced ones requiring EU to run, but having an interface similar to BC gates.

Multi-Tile Machines Continued:
(because organization is for chumps)

(Okay, these compressors maybe aren't as great as I was intending them to be, but I dunno...)
Multi-tile Compressor:

What it says on the tin, this is intended as a fast, more effective, and obviously more expensive alternative to the compressor.
First, you have to craft two of the machines, then place them so that they both face oppositely on the same block. (Preferably, on top of a conveyer, but that's optional)
Then, whenever one of these compressors receive a redstone signal, they will both slam into each other, instantaneously expending their combined inner store of 2600 EU (may be more, if it feels needed) and detecting any item compression recipes in the items between them. If there are none, then the EU is simply wasted, but if there are any, then after 20 seconds, its pistons will slide back to reveal its products.

This compressor can, in this way, produce up to 4 recipes at once, allowing it to produce at greater efficiency and much greater speed, provided items are supplied in-bulk.

Example Recipe:
OOO
P
BCA
Where;
O = Obsidian
P = Piston
B = Advanced machine block
C = Compressor
A = Advanced circuit

Aaaand, now, I can't think anymore, for some reason... If these ideas aren't totally bashed to pieces by tomorrow, I'll continue this.

Quote

Have a look for Advanced machine (I dislike it but ...). It already contains an advanced macerator.

This was just my take on what an advanced macerator should look like. And I just like the idea of this kind of multi-tile machine, working on physical item entities in the world, instead of just having an inventory.

Quote

According to the actual Overclocker upgrade system, increasing the speed by 20 would be 60 time more consuming, not 15 ...

The reason I said 15-16 is because, the way I, personally, increase production, is that I simply make MOAR MACERATORS, so the efficiency is the same, but your total items per second increases. This is why I said the EU/t amounts that I did.
Though, you're right that the overclocking system should not be ignored here, and I suppose at this stage of the game, EU is something you'd likely have a lot of... Especially if other suggestions I'll put here are implemented...
Buuut, at the same time, if the amount of EU/t is increased above 20 times the cost of one macerator, then what's the point of using this? Why not just make more macerators, when they're so much cheaper?

Quote

Machine giving extra loots are already denied/ignored ... I'like too
having machines more expensive, EU-consuming and working more slowly
that gives you extra-loots but ...

Damn... >->

I suppose, also, if anyone wants to make a add-on out of any of these ideas, please feel free to. These actually were originally ideas for an add-on, not the main mod itself, but I couldn't find an add-on suggestion forum...

Quote

Most of the people on this forum would probably answer you: IC² is not
for automation. But I simply don't understand the point on what you
suggested. I mean that I would like too a little part of automation, but
having advantages on BC/RP: it could be done inside your machines,
assuming you're able to manage others problems it can occured
(EU-consumption or more)

So far, that hasn't been mentioned, but I suppose I could agree if that's an official statement.
But still, I feel that this mod could really use its own, unique form of automation, which would have its own advantages/disadvantages. (Including, as you suggested, being able to be used in the multi-tile machines above.)
There are also other advantages to the chute system over BC/RP, a few of which I came up with after the above post;
Chutes would, on inclines, react to each other like minecart tracks, making diagonals much easier. This might also relate to the caveats, in that, if there is a junction, where chutes converge on the same tile, with one going up/down, then other chutes will always take a diagonal path down into that chute.
Chutes would be MUCH less expensive to go fast on, all you have to do is make a diagonal or straight up/down slope, and items will quickly speed up to at least the speed of a golden BC pipe. Though, I've never played RP, so I don't know how fast items usually go down tubes...
Additionally, chutes would be MUCH easier- and cheaper!- to work with, requiring no redstone, no pumps, no engines, no motors, no whatever-it-is-RP-has, the only force a chute needs to take items out of inventories and truck them over distances is gravity.
They would also automatically act like cheaper obsidian pipes whenever they are open on one end, allowing one to easily drop items straight into chutes, with the disadvantages that they can only pick up on one side, and they cannot pick up items from a distance.

Oh, and did I mention that chutes require NO power, save gravity, and that they are cheap? That's the biggest advantage of chutes, in my opinion, that and diagonals.

As for conveyors, the main reason I suggested them, honestly, was for use inside of these machines that I was suggesting, as a way to move items without destroying blocks or just dropping stuff in. They may also have some application in traps, for pushing players and mobs around, but they have a disadvantage of not being able to take items out of inventories, and costing EU for every block traveled.
They would also have the advantage of being much easier to go diagonally up or down, but besides the above advantages of moving entities and being able to be used in machines, these don't have many advantages over pipes/tubes.

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I would like these suggestions, maybe with a bit of refining though
(some things would be alot more practical or less laggy with slight
changes)

I find it funny that we ic2'ers are soooo advanced that we can make armor that makes you invincible,

but we still can't manage to get an item to fall into a chest without us there helping it along

Of course, these are far from set-in-stone ideas, and practical and ESPECIALLY lag concerns are more important then coolness factor.

And that little bit of funny oddness is exactly why I made the chutes.

And now, for an additional suggestion, which I actually particularly like;

Redstone Cabling:

Craft a piece of redstone with a cable, or simply place redstone on a cable, and it will become a redstone variant of that kind of cable, capable of conducting both a redstone and an EU current. This would be especially useful in my machine components suggestions, since most components require a redstone current for activation, but could also have applications for the creative, such as more easily using a distant splitter cable when an storage medium is full, or making a MFSU automatically turn on a reactor when it needs power.
Also, breaking one of these cables will drop both a normal variant of the cable, and a piece of redstone, allowing one to easily uncraft them if needs be.

If this has already been suggested/done, then this can simply be ignored.

Quote from F4113nb34st

don't worry about the fact that there is no addon suggestion section, most addon makers look to suggestions forum for ideas when they can't think of any
also, if no one picks this up, I might take it up in the future
(note: I mean distant future, right now I got alot of things I gotta make, so I would be a month or two min)

Mkay, cool, good to know.
And I would, personally, not consider a month to be "distant future", but cool that you're interested.

And also, an additional addendum for the chutes; Gravity and diagonals are intended to be what sets them apart from other pipe-like systems, and allowing as many diagonal connections as is practically possible, without making things awkward or difficult, or impossible to code would be best, in my opinion.
They would also probably require painting to make things easier in this regard.

And now, to finally get into...

Multi-Tile Energy Storage:

This one may be difficult to make non-laggy, and/or very difficult to code, but here it is anyway;

Basically, every mineral storage block (or at least, most/some of them) would have a Conductivity and Capacity value, as well (maybe) a Wavelength value. Conductivity is how much EU can be transferred in to or out of that block at any given tick, and capacity is how much EU can be stored in that block. Exactly how things will work in regards to conductivity/EU storage, I don't know, but maybe it could work similarly to how things are now, where storage mediums will 'suck up' as much as is not being used at any given time? Then just give out as much as they can when necessary.
Wavelength affects how easily energy can transfer between two different materials. Having a Wavelength close to that of another material, will allow that material to transfer power at or nearly at the lower of the two block's maximums. Having a Wavelength which is distant from another material, however, would cause those two materials to transfer only a trickle of power, if any at all. (Note: there should be a way for the game to detect when two mineral blocks have 0 conductivity with eachother, so it knows not to try doing so constantly, and this should get updated at block updates.)
Also, any mineral faces with EU in them which are in direct contact with air or any block without a conductivity/wavelength rating, would constantly destroy 1/4 of the block's conductivity worth of EU from the block's storage, making insulation important for storage blocks.

Here's an example;
Let's say you wanted to make a giant rechargeable battery, made of tin on the outside, redstone blocks on the inside, (which would be added with this) and copper blocks running down the center. Let's say redstone has a wavelength of 150, tin has a wavelength of 50, and copper has a wavelength of 100. Because the wavelengths between redstone and tin are so far away from eachother, they would have no conductivity between eachother at all, allowing tin to be an effective 'insulator' for redstone. However, if you were to stupidly connect your copper- which has a much higher conductivity then redstone, but much lower capacity- to the tin shell, then because copper has an intermediate wavelength between the two, it would constantly siphon off power from the redstone and into the tin, which would then in turn, since it's exposed to air, gradually destroy all your precious EU.
A way to avoid this might be to surround your copper with rubber blocks on the output/input face(s), which has a conductivity of 0, and a wavelength of 9001, which makes it non-conductive with all blocks.

Also, another additional tidbit, is that cables would ONLY link to the same mineral block which that cable is made out of, so copper cables will only link to copper, gold cables would only link to gold, fiber optics would only link to diamond, and iron cables would only link to iron or refined iron.

Alternatively, there could be recipes which create special "conductive [mineral here] block", which would function in the same way as above.

This system also gives the potential for high-capacity, but VERY expensive and space-consuming "mega-cables" made of various blocks, and surrounded by rubber.