Advanced Machines: 1.23 UPDATES linked here and new ideas

  • So, I posted a couple of weeks ago one of the two updates to Advanced machines (in the main Addons thread). Firstly, for those who want it, I will link to the two updates, hopefully to help new people who are visiting and want the "working" versions of Advanced Machines.


    Arsenic87 created a straightup "fix" that allows advanced machines to work with 1.23. It changes nothing about their behaviour except to make them work. His post is here. I recommend it for everyone. There is a bukkit version available as well.
    http://forum.industrial-craft.…ad&postID=15363#post15363


    cpw (me) created a more "advanced" advanced machines, incorporating the two changes that I most desired in advanced machines 1.23: ore dictionary support (so you can macerate redpower ores in your rotary macerators) and a redstone fix that allows you to run hot redstone beside the machines rather than having to put a lever on them to power them on. This fix is available here, as well as a bukkit version of same (by me as well).
    http://forum.industrial-craft.…ad&postID=17145#post17145


    Now, to the main point of creating this thread. I would like to continue zippinous's excellent work in his continued absence. I have a couple of more fundamental ideas than the two hotfixes above which would require me to overhaul the mod fairly radically. Specifically, I think I want to create "tier 3" combo machines.


    The idea is to create something thats a combination induction+macerator+recycler. The principle is that you feed it raw ore, as you do a macerator today. It not only crunches down your ore, but captures a new thing: something like stone dust or something. This isn't a real item but rather accumulates to create scrap. So you feed it 2 iron ore. It will give you 5 iron dust (because it's a more efficient macerator) but also 2 "stone dust". These 2 stone dust aren't real, they accumulate in the machine to some set number, like 10, before coagulating into a piece of scrap, which is realised in the machine's inventory. Additionally, the iron dust will automatically be processed by the furnace component into iron bars. So the outputs from a bunch of ore would be a portion of a piece of scrap and 2.5x the bars from ore. This is just an idea for a way to generate a tier 3 machine. I can't think of a reasonable tier 3 compressor or extractor- but I think that this might be quite neat. I think the production of scrap and bars would scale with "speed"- so a newly turned on machine doesn't produce as much as a fully "charged up" machine.


    Anyway, thoughts? Should I take over like this? I feel really bad for zippinous and I don't want to usurp him as mod owner, but I want to try and contribute something and I had this as an idea for something that seemed feasibly tier 3 ish.


    Finally, I would like to leave this post here as a placeholder for easier discovery of arsenic87 and my fixes for advancedmachines as it stands right now.
    Edit: fix up derpy URL links. Sorry :(


    Edit: For those of you concerned that these ideas will affect candidacy of this addon's content for IC2, here's a relevant quote from the original AdvMachines thread:


    Just to mention it by the way, these machines will NOT be implemented into IC² itself.
    The "accelerating machine" idea was exclusively meant for Smelting as "the" base operation, not for the 3 workshop machines.


    However, i won't mind this addon sticking around in here ^^ Everyones own choice.

  • I don't like the idea of a macerator/furnace machine. But I do like the idea of it producing a little scrap! :WHY IS THERE NO SCRAP EMOTE: :thumbsup:
    Maybe it would be a separate branch of the advanced machines!
    So you can either change your macerator into a fast version or one that produces scrap.
    Also, I think there should be a progress bar to see the percentage progress towards scrap.

  • this is a graght idea anny upgrage the the :Recycler: is a good 1 becus its my fatret mushean


    sarry for bpelling

  • Hey cpw,
    first of all, thank you for your fix! Not only on this mod, but other stuff like Portal Gun as well.
    You seem to be a man of integrity and I don't think you'll steal or take over something, but rather share whatever you come up with with the original creator of this mod. And in a perfect world Zippinus would be fine with you doing a fork based on his work, just like wireless redstone and chickenbones fork. It would give players a choice and choices are always good.


    I like the idea of a tier 3 machine and I think the way of combining machines makes sense. I don't know if it's a good idea to increase the efficiency by increasing the output tho. Speed and by-products may be good enough, but that's a matter of balancing and needs to be tested.
    I would like to add an idea as well: how about a machine to produce bronze? Feed it tin and copper ore and get bronze ingots right away.
    Also I could think of machines with a built in automatic crafting table, more and more people get rid of buildcraft because of sloppy code and RP2, so why not make machines that produce stuff like cables? Feed it resin and copper, get copper cable... You know where I'm going with this. It's called industrialcraft for a reason.
    Of course this takes away a part of the original game, but on the other hand... why should I craft friggin cables by hand if I can build machines that make diamonds out of thin air and some energy?
    And as with your idea of a combining machines, it's a matter of balancing the energy and material costs for such machines.


    Just my two industrial cents.

  • I like the idea of a combined machine but it's a bit overpowered with the scrap and *way* overpowered with the 2 ore in and 5 bars out deal.

  • Personally, I think that combined macerator, recycler, furnace sounds a tad powerful. I think it should probably require about 3 EU/t to keep it running at max speed, maybe 4 or 5 even. Then... I dunno... 300/item grinded/smelted/recycled/turned-into-awesome. 6000 for unreadied thing?

  • I don't think a combined macerator & furnace are a good idea...
    Tin, copper, and gold dust all have recipes that use the dust rather than the ingots, so you don't really want to blindly smelt it all. In fact, I don't keep many ingots around at all. Mostly I store the dust, and drop it in an induction furnace as needed.


    Clay... Do you smelt it into bricks, or make clay dust out of it?


    In this case, I'd rather have the control rather than the convenience. :)

  • Dust is significant in IC2, I also stockpile it and the Ore rather than ingots/blocks (Hmmm ingot grinding to dust..... I'll pop that in the suggestion area). 1ore to 2.5 ingots inho is too much, scrap, hell yea.


    How about 1 ore -> 2 dust at cold/off, and increase the scrap with 'speed' and maybe a chance for a extra dust dependant on speed.


    Extractor would be nice to get more rubber from rubber wood maybe? (Using Tree Farms http://www.minecraftforum.net/…omated/page__hl__forestry)


    We already have a Tier 3 furnace, including the furnace operation would unbalance. There's more need for a higher powered recycler than T3 of most things, how about a scrap collector that randomly generates scrap dependant on how many of this mods machines are running adjacent? i.e. none +1% chance per tick(s?) per working (not heated) rotary/singularity/centrifuge. Maybe with bonus for T3 versions that would be generating (but not as this machine is collecting) some scrap anyway?


    Other ideas in theme, T2 scrap collecter, miner (speed?, scrap?, bonus?, automacerate?), pump(speed?, scrap?). (Generators are covered well enough elsewhere)

  • (Hmmm ingot grinding to dust..... I'll pop that in the suggestion area).


    You can already grind ingots into dust. I store nearly all my ore as metal blocks; I only break them down and grind them back to dust as needed.


    As for more advanced machines? Well, I agree that an advanced Miner would be great (F4113nb34st's got an excellent one in his mod) and we do need a better recycler (either a bigger input hopper and/or a better chance for scrap as it speeds up/warms up). I'd also like to see an advanced Pump that would look for liquids the same way a miner finds ores. What's left? The canning machine? I'm not sure what could be done with that - I already use it infrequently as it is.

    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand." - Bertrand Russell

  • OK, thanks all for some ideas. I think that the combination macerator/recycler idea is clearly a bit of a hit, so how about this:


    2 machines:
    1. an impact macerator: very similar to a rotary macerator, but has a side effect, specifically, it accumulates stone dust in an "internal" inventory through use on ores (or stone/cobblestone).
    2. an industrial vacuum. This collects the "stone dust" inventories of nearby (about 2 blocks or so distance) impact macerators and converts it into scrap.


    These two machines would allow for reliable collection of scrap (probably at 64 ore/scrap, or 8 cobble/scrap). Note that I don't want to outpace normal scrap production but rather make it very reliable when used in combination with other machines.


    Likely, the side effect of the impact macerator is that it won't ever be able to work as quickly as the rotary macerator.


    What do you think?
    Edit: note, "stone dust" will be a virtual item, not a real item- it will only accumulate as a number inside of the macerator and vacuum.

  • Nice ideas !


    But please, do not remove recyclers role.
    What about a machine that output sand to be recycled in recyclers ?


    I mean changing :

    Quote

    2. an industrial vacuum. This collects the "stone dust" inventories of nearby (about 2 blocks or so distance) impact macerators and converts it into scrap.

    into :

    Quote

    2. an industrial vacuum. This collects the "stone dust" inventories of nearby (about 2 blocks or so distance) impact macerators and converts it into sand, ready to be sent to the recyclers producing scrap.

    ( Sorry for my poor English, I hope you'll understand what I try to say )

  • T3 machines... NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! This will remove ANY chance of this ever becoming an official thing. And also remove most of the users.

    Quote

    It has become a little stubbly. Implement facial hair growth in IC²? Vision continuously grows more furry until you shave. (approx once every 2 minecraft days ;P)


    Steve shaves with his chainsaw.
    Check out Factorio- A game where you build a factory from scratch.

  • A tier 2 advanced recycler would be cool instead of every thing producing scrap some items could produce dust i.e. wooden door = 1 scrap but iron door = iron dust , a piston = 1 iron dust, 1 redstone dust, 1 scrap Etc..


    Just a thought

  • To be honest the main thing I would really want to see is a teir 3 recycler! By the time I get to making a mass fab I have chests full of stuff to recycle and the current ones even in bulk are inefficient!

  • Hi there cpw! First of all I want to thank you for the time invested in the game. I love the minecraft community because of people like you.
    I want to ask you for a starting guide do modding minecraft. I feel that I can contribute to the wonderful community but don't know where to start from. My programming skills can be rated as borderline absent but I am a fast learned and self taught "genius" :).... I just need a nudge.
    Maybe some links of forum thread or ideas. Any help is much appreciated.

  • Hi there cpw! First of all I want to thank you for the time invested in the game. I love the minecraft community because of people like you.
    I want to ask you for a starting guide do modding minecraft. I feel that I can contribute to the wonderful community but don't know where to start from. My programming skills can be rated as borderline absent but I am a fast learned and self taught "genius" :).... I just need a nudge.
    Maybe some links of forum thread or ideas. Any help is much appreciated.

    Nudgy link coming up!
    http://www.zidmc.info/

  • Update for everyone. Thanks very much for the ideas. This is a little side project for me, I will be hanging around, but I do have a day job (for which I write Java code, busman's holiday anyone ;) ) so I won't be turning around addons at speed.


    I think I will be creating a new addon, because I really don't want to steal zipp's work. However, it will contain "tier 2" and "tier 3" machines. Partly I'll do this because all I have of Zipp's code is decompiled, so it's not the prettiest stuff. I have a couple of ways I want to make things better so it's probably easier to start from scratch, metaphorically.


    Give me a week or so.


    By the way, looking for names, I noticed that what we've called Macerators in IC2 are probably more properly called crushers or mills (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_mill). Macerators are actually things that chew, like your mouth ;)


    So here's what I think:
    We have tier 1:
    Elec furnace; Macerator; Compressor; Extractor; Recycler
    Tier 2 is going to be (my additions in red):
    Ind. furnace; ball mill (upgraded macerator); power compressor (upgraded compressor); hydraulic extractor; dust recycler
    Tier 3 will be:
    Blast furnace; rotary ball mill; power compactor (t3 compressor); vacuum extractor; magnetic recycler


    Tier 2 items will be slightly less powerful than the Adv Machine versions (except furnace of course); they will spin up and for extractor; compressor and ball mill will generate small amounts of "dust" randomly as a side effect for feeding into the dust recycler (for more predictable scrap). (Expect 1 dust from a stack of ore or something similar, not meant to really replace anything current, just a little "benefit").


    Tier 3 will be able to process many items simultaneously (blast furnace up to say, six; similar for the others) as well as more reliable "dust" generation for the recycler. The recycler "magnetically" separates the dust so there's a small chance for "small pile of iron dust" from dust gathering, is my thought (as well as usual scrap).


    Dust mechanisms will be as outlined above: adv recyclers "collect" accumulated dust from machines nearby for processing, but only when powered. T2 machines will not be as good for range or maximal accumulation as T3, obviously. An interesting side effect of this mechanism is the idea of "clogging". If a machine becomes "full" of dust, it no longer works very well. Probably a real problem for efficient T3 set ups :)


    Tier 3 spinup will be slow, and you won't be able to turn them off and on on demand though- once you turn them off they remain "hot" for some period (maybe an MC day) and can't be reactivated without exploding. Also, they process nothing until they hit power, and will probably draw 5-10 eu/t to remain idle.


    What do you think?

  • Amazing. If you would like, and you have a sort of "bleeding edge" add-on, you can send it over to me to test and potentially create demo vids for. I'm not afraid to do some minecraft-breaking. 8)


    On a related note, I support these idea wholeheartedly, I like the Adv. Machines add-on but I always felt like there could be more done (no offense to the author). If you want to accept my offer, just drop me a PM.