=(Un)Offical Technic Pack Discussion Thread=

Quote from MagusUnion

...goonswarm...

Lol.
It is me, KakerMix, Hero of Goonswarm via Goonswarm, out to destroy everyone.

If I (or we I guess!) were out to make things "miserable for everyone" or "defile" people's work then you can bet your ass that I wouldn't bother giving credit to whose mods are in the pack. Why would I go through the trouble of that if I am simple out to CRUSH the community with "spite" and "malevolence". Why would I even speak with Alblaka, or steer people towards his paypal when they ask to donate to Technic? Why wouldn't I just take the money and run?
You can hate us and the Technic pack all you want, but I want you to really think about what you are claiming. There is no grand scheme to somehow make life more unpleasant for you, MagnusUnion. We're not out to 'steal' work and if we are, we are doing a piss-poor job at it. I've turned away donations! You're right though, I'm only turning the donations away so when someone complains I can go 'no see we don't take donations!' so we can further get our justifications out there and seem even more legit! You've cracked the code! Because obviously the next step is to...uh...bring the community down! Yeah!

I guess its absolutely impossible that the Minecraft modding community is really hard to get into if you are a new player, or more of a casual player of Minecraft. Its also not possible that we just happen to really like a lot of the mods in Technic and decided to put them together for some friends. I guess that the people playing Technic who might not have ever heard or seen Industrial Craft are really miserable or our goon puppets. Nobody *really* enjoys Technic, its all just a ruse to make everyone have a shit time. And its true, Alblaka was lying about his triple digit donation spree he had, maybe he's even a secret Goonswarm agent!!! I guess that the reason Technic is really popular has anything to do with it making it easy to get and play the best that the Minecraft community has to offer. I guess I am defiling Forge for using it exactly like it was designed. I guess its a grand conspiracy that I am out, personally, many times more money than I spent on Minecraft. You're right, its impossible that we actually like Minecraft.

- KakerMix, Hero of Goonswarm via Goonwarm

Quote from MagusUnion

But this is Kakermix, beloved 'hero' for Goonswarm: an organization that loves to profiteer off of making online play miserable for everyone and defiles every game that they touch with bile, malevolence, and spite. They don't ask permissions because they LOVE pissing people off with their actions, and spinning some 'but we're helping you out bro' justification afterwords. In every post (yes, every post) either Kakermix or another fellow goonswarm member has stated that they 'are doing good' by either 'donating money and not using adfly', 'giving more publicity that you may have ever got', 'made it easier for people to enjoy your work'. Sure, they did those things, but at what price? Increased installation problems and help requests, further issues with incompatibility and off-the-wall technical errors, and even more of the useless 'when iz thiz mod be update 4 1.x.x.x?!?!/!/11?!'... About half of the errors encountered actually have to be solved thru manual re-installation of said mods, which leaves most users further behind square one than if they had not touched the pack to begin with...

For future reference, the #1 cause of Technic troubles is the user trying to install it into a minecraft installation that is not clean. This requirement is plainly stated in the installation instructions. The second most common error is trying to install an additional mod not included in the pack. Sometimes this is simply a block id conflict. Other times it is an outright compatibility conflict with an existing mod or mod requirement. Most often these conflicts are because the additional mod is not Forge\Optifine\TMI compatible. The typical response is to tell the user that they will either have to do without Technic or the additional mod and/or petition the mod author for compatibility. It has been really nice seeing more and more mod authors either adopting Forge outright, or at least providing Forge compatibility. This is a step in the right direction. A widely accepted open compatibility layer is something most of the modding community can get behind.

As for users asking for updates...you really can't be serious? That is going to happen anyway. You might as well blame Mojang for updating minecraft.

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If I (or we I guess!) were out to make things "miserable for everyone" or "defile" people's work then you can bet your ass that I wouldn't bother giving credit to whose mods are in the pack. Why would I go through the trouble of that if I am simple out to CRUSH the community with "spite" and "malevolence". Why would I even speak with Alblaka, or steer people towards his paypal when they ask to donate to Technic? Why wouldn't I just take the money and run?

Oh idk... because a couple of stupid brits made some YouTube videos of your work, and said developers got wind with it? That's about the ONLY real reason you bothered to communicate with the developers, because they started to ask questions about what you were doing...

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You can hate us and the Technic pack all you want, but I want you to really think about what you are claiming. There is no grand scheme to somehow make life more unpleasant for you, MagnusUnion. We're not out to 'steal' work and if we are, we are doing a piss-poor job at it. I've turned away donations! You're right though, I'm only turning the donations away so when someone complains I can go 'no see we don't take donations!' so we can further get our justifications out there and seem even more legit! You've cracked the code! Because obviously the next step is to...

... is to take up fans of Technic Mod Pack and gain more SA recuits, just like you always do in every single game that Goonswarm has involved itself in.

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-words and lol-

I don't care if you like MC or not, nor do I care about the scam money that you throw onto said developers that you have access to just to get their approval (or at least, their silence). Point is, you only made the pack for your ends, and the ends of your SA forum members. You care nothing for the developers work or their vision of future versions of said mods, yet you still 'spin' the story as hard as you want to say that you do for the sake of getting more downloads for your pack, and more fans to follow you back to SA...

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The second most common error is trying to install an additional mod not included in the pack.

That's a very big damn logistical error, period. You're basically saying that 'only mods in Technic pack are worth playing, and all other mods are shit'. I'm sorry, but who gave you the damn right to say what mods I wanted, much less to judge which mods are 'worth the community's attention'? That's a VERY big claim to make: Who the hell do you (and Goonswarm) think you are in saying what mods I should/shouldn't be playng with my Minecraft? You think you have any RIGHT or MERIT to even begin to make such an action like that towards me? Course not, so don't sit there and say that it's 'ok' to railroad specific mods to users, and neglete others just because you 'don't like them'. That's not your choice to make with people, and no amount of SA spin doctoring is going to justify that...

Quote from MagusUnion

That's a very big damn logistical error, period. You're basically saying that 'only mods in Technic pack are worth playing, and all other mods are shit'. I'm sorry, but who gave you the damn right to say what mods I wanted, much less to judge which mods are 'worth the community's attention'? That's a VERY big claim to make: Who the hell do you (and Goonswarm) think you are in saying what mods I should/shouldn't be playng with my Minecraft? You think you have any RIGHT or MERIT to even begin to make such an action like that towards me? Course not, so don't sit there and say that it's 'ok' to railroad specific mods to users, and neglete others just because you 'don't like them'. That's not your choice to make with people, and no amount of SA spin doctoring is going to justify that...

You failed to quote the reasons why an additional mod might cause an error. Here is a hint: It has to do with current limitations of the minecraft engine, and not any personal preferences. You are more than welcome to remove and add whatever mods you like from your installation of the Technic pack. I will even personally help you out if you are having trouble. But, there are only so many resources available, and some mods simply do not work together. And as a bonus, you are free to not install the Technic pack, and install/configure whatever mods please you.

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You failed to quote the reasons why an additional mod might cause an error. Here is a hint: It has to do with current limitations of the minecraft engine, and not any personal preferences. You are more than welcome to remove and add whatever mods you like from your installation of the Technic pack. I will even personally help you out if you are having trouble. But, there are only so many resources available, and some mods simply do not work together. And as a bonus, you are free to not install the Technic pack, and install/configure whatever mods please you.

I like how you assume that I would have trouble installing mods. You think I would support the Forge so much if I didn't already know about the limitations of the MC engine to begin with? Humor me more then. That last line is about the only good line that I have seen you post so far in this entire forum. No doubt that you probably already know that's what I do currently anyway.

The only thing that confuses me is that allot of authors give permission for making a modpack. Yet you didn't ask the ones who do. It's not like a no is going to make the mod impossible to add.

Quote from MagusUnion

I like how you assume that I would have trouble installing mods. You think I would support the Forge so much if I didn't already know about the limitations of the MC engine to begin with? Humor me more then. That last line is about the only good line that I have seen you post so far in this entire forum. No doubt that you probably already know that's what I do currently anyway.

Do you not read your owns posts? Or are just so angry that you can't have a coherent discussion?

If you are willing to discuss any part of this topic I have entered into without all this "ARGH GOONS!" "ARGH GOONSWARM!" nonsense I will be happy to ablige.

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Do you not read your owns posts? Or are just so angry that you can't have a coherent discussion?

It's called aggression... Deal with it.

Oh wait, that requires guts... my bad..

Quote from MagusUnion

It's called aggression... Deal with it.

Oh wait, that requires guts... my bad..

Ok man. I came here and regged because someone sent me a link and said some lunatic was raving and it was funny and to check it out. And while seeing your posts I was not mislead, I have to be serious for a moment. I wan't to voice my opinion if you'll pause for breath and allow me. Your behaviour and mindset is exactly the kind that damages the minecraft community and holds it back. You have a very destructive and pessimistic attitude. Sure, you can spend all the time you want raging about technic, but what does that do? Say KakerMix hears your cries of anger and says "oh, jeeze I guess I gotta stop putting technic together."

Here is what happens.

1. KakerMix and a great team of hard working modders (Whom are credited on the technic page for their hard work) and other folks who volunteer their time to put technic together stop making Technic. Great! You won! Now what did you win?

2. The technic pack is no longer available. The vast majority of people who used it while playing minecraft are forced to stop. A few diehards will spend days every update patching and updating every single mod that used to be included, but they will do so without the help of a team of friendly and cool people who used to do that for them, and then assist them personally with any problems. The average player who doesn't have the time or patience to fiddle with compatibility issues, the people who just want to sit down and play minecraft, they'll pick a single mod and just play that.

3. For thousands, the gameplay that can only be achieved by playing all the mods in technic together will be gone forever.

4. Those who would like to use all those mods together, no longer have an area of the community to go to for help. They're on their own and good luck! I've seen the amount of work it takes to update technic, let alone the amount it took to build it in the first place. No one wants to do that. I'm amazed a bunch of people are, and that they put up with all the backlash they get for doing so.

5. Many of the smaller mods included in technic will stop being used. Quite a few smaller mods have become much more popular because they are featured next to the bigger ones people recognize in technic and come with them. Many players try out new mods they never would have bothered with before, and are pleasantly surprised. With technic gone, lesser known modders or those just starting out wouldn't have any real form of exposure, and defiantly a lot less donation money. Adf.ly revenue is pennies, and not worth the drama. I personally don't touch any download that uses adf.ly since it already triggered an anti virus warning once.

6. As much as it's hard to hear, many players would not even touch mods if it weren't for the easy installer included with Technic. I used to be one of those people so I understand. Technic actually turned me around on that point and now I love mods. If technic were to go away tomorrow, I might not even bother using mods at all however. Certainly not all the mods included in the pack. I might not even bother with Minecraft at all, since the Vanilla gameplay in the final version has disappointed me. While not everyone will agree with me there, I'm sure I'm not alone in that point of view and to each their own. The point is, the modding community would undeniably lose a lot of traffic.

7. Without the mods being used together, the modders who make them would go back to the way it was. No more floods of downloaders experiencing their mods who might not have before. No more floods of grateful donators, who have been directed to them by KakerMix, who refuses to profit at all, and in fact spends a lot of money to make technic happen. People competing for downloads, making pennies from annoying ad links, never co-operating with each other to make something better or greater. Technic, regardless of personal feeling, does fill that hole in the community. The modders make their mods, and the technic pack brings them together into something amazing and makes it accessible to everyone, regardless of personal skill or knowledge with computers or mod managing.

8. Many mods that have been created completely to bridge these mods together or add in technic specific gameplay, would dry up. Many talented modders, like PowerCrystals who has made a number of amazing mods, see the gameplay technic creates as the ideal way to play modded minecraft, and contribute their time for free to make great new content. Those mods would no longer have a venue.

So this is what you're aiming to do? Well great. You're an e-hero! Keep going on about swarms and conspiracies and people out to ruin minecraft. I haven't seen any ruining going on. I've seen a really cool way to play minecraft that I never would have gotten to see without Technic. I've seen the best thing to happen to a chaotic and fragmented community since minecraft blipped on the radar.

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Quote from MagusUnion

It's called aggression... Deal with it.

Oh wait, that requires guts... my bad..

If your posts ever had any credibility or meat to them, you just lost all of it. It's people like you that are detrimental to the community as a whole, they just complain for the sake of complaining and when presented with arguments they just read without understanding and talk without thinking. They bash other's efforts endlessly while contributing nothing themselves.

I am not going to address every post herein but I just want to comment on the line of though that what modpack authors in general are doing is not worth a small thank you and/or the time it saves us, the users. Have you ever tried to make that many mods compatible? I assume you didn't, because its shitload of work and saying it's not only makes you look like you're pulling facts out of your ass. If it weren't for Forge and the other important API mods, it would be a path only a madman would choose, so big thanks to them, too.

Let's get things straight here... I doubt anyone is against mod packs.
Mod packs are great for newbies and insecure people to get into mods. We are lucky this isn't OTTD or everybody would be using mod packs. OTTD requires you to combile C++ code to insert addons.

I shall repeat where i stand on the matter:

• I dislike adfly etc links. They are totally pointless and only makes downloading the mods painful. Especially when ALL parts of a mod (BC, RP2) are linked through one adfly link each. I simply open the first one (with adblocker of course) and then manually make a list of all files from the "direct" download site they have behind their adfly links.
• I don't agree with the restrictive copyrights modders use... They hamper the community and doesn't serve the modders that much really. What are they afraid of? That someone will mod their mods? (Double moral if anything)
• Even if i disagree with the above two, i respect their wishes, after all they are the ones making the mods. They at least have a say in how they want to use the mods. If we start crapping in their face then they may stop making said mods and as such no Technic pack and no mods for ANYONE. Now who's the e-hero?
• Thus, i think adding mods to a pack without permission is even worse than trying to stop the Technic pack in it's track because some thousand noobs doesn't know how to use an archiver and copy files around. (It's that simple)

Quote from Cadde

I shall repeat where i stand on the matter:

• I dislike adfly etc links. They are totally pointless and only makes downloading the mods painful. Especially when ALL parts of a mod (BC, RP2) are linked through one adfly link each. I simply open the first one (with adblocker of course) and then manually make a list of all files from the "direct" download site they have behind their adfly links.
• I don't agree with the restrictive copyrights modders use... They hamper the community and doesn't serve the modders that much really. What are they afraid of? That someone will mod their mods? (Double moral if anything)
• Even if i disagree with the above two, i respect their wishes, after all they are the ones making the mods. They at least have a say in how they want to use the mods. If we start crapping in their face then they may stop making said mods and as such no Technic pack and no mods for ANYONE. Now who's the e-hero?
• Thus, i think adding mods to a pack without permission is even worse than trying to stop the Technic pack in it's track because some thousand noobs doesn't know how to use an archiver and copy files around. (It's that simple)

I agree with every point here. Namely the last two.
The problem with the technic pack, is simply the fact that it never asked for permission in the first place.
It's like starting up a band, making an album, which you begin handing out to people for free.
But then somebody else comes along and takes your album, and give it to people without your permission. Sure they might say thanks for the album, and you got a lot more publicity, but aren't you just a bit irked by the fact that they felt so entitled to hand out the mod as they please? Maybe even so far as to feel somewhat betrayed?

Regardless of the fact that they said thanks and gave credit where credit is due, they never asked for permission in the first place. To me, when a person asks for permission for something, it shows a real sense of respect and appreciation. When a person just takes/distributes something without my permission, it leaves me feeling dis-respected and almost betrayed.

Now granted I doubt you guys had those intentions, but simply wanted to share these wonderful mods with the mainstream minecraft community, which I commend! However, I still refuse to suggest the technic pack to friends because you did not ask for permission in the first place and, to me, disrespected the rights that the modders of minecraft in doing so.

Quote from M11xStryker

I agree with every point here. Namely the last two.
The problem with the technic pack, is simply the fact that it never asked for permission in the first place.
It's like starting up a band, making an album, which you begin handing out to people for free.
But then somebody else comes along and takes your album, and give it to people without your permission. Sure they might say thanks for the album, and you got a lot more publicity, but aren't you just a bit irked by the fact that they felt so entitled to hand out the mod as they please? Maybe even so far as to feel somewhat betrayed?

Regardless of the fact that they said thanks and gave credit where credit is due, they never asked for permission in the first place. To me, when a person asks for permission for something, it shows a real sense of respect and appreciation. When a person just takes/distributes something without my permission, it leaves me feeling dis-respected and almost betrayed.

Now granted I doubt you guys had those intentions, but simply wanted to share these wonderful mods with the mainstream minecraft community, which I commend! However, I still refuse to suggest the technic pack to friends because you did not ask for permission in the first place and, to me, disrespected the rights that the modders of minecraft in doing so.

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This is a bit long, but you should read what I have to say. I have a bit of an insiders opinion on the matter.
Actually, the intention was never to share technic with the mainstream community at the start. That's why permission wasn't obtained. KakerMix assembled the pack personally after some kind of fever vision of an awesome way to play minecraft. It turned out to be amazing, and he just shared it with a few friends. I was one of those lucky test pilots so I know. From there people asked about it, and instead of explaining every little detail of a process that took days, he just shared the mods as a pack to those in his circles. From there it was leaked and spread like wildfire, so it was already too late to get permissions. Everyone was wild for technic. He did the best thing he could do and worked hard to set up a support system over time and make sure the people who had gotten it understood how to run it. As well as that, he contacted as many modders as he could and tried to get them to work together.

Until recently, that was met with quite the negative response, as most well know. It somewhat explains our jaded attitude. A lot of people acted childishly instead of rationally, and instead of a community working together to make technic legit, we got a lot of modders hissing at KakerMix, and even each other. Throwing insults and refusing to listen to any reasonable discussion. They were all too afraid that their attention would be snatched away since they wanted it all for themselves and didn't want to share the spotlight with other modders. It was never about lost adf.ly revenue. Most modders barely make anything off those awful links. Pennies usually. They get more from donations through technic users then they did with adf.ly no question. It was all about every modder wanting to be the king of the community. Thankfully lately modders like Eloraam have been starting to come around, and we've been seeing a lot more growth in the community. A lot of mods have sprung up that bridge other mods together and create new and exciting gameplay. People are getting over the initial slight, and starting to accept that technic has been nothing but positive for everyone. (except flowerchild I guess? His own fault there.)

I mean clearly theres still people who are just looking for a fight, or to carry that grudge torch on. People bring up copyright law without knowing anything about it themselves. The fun fact is, according to mojangs terms of service, every modder has violated them, even if it wasn't mojangs intention. In Sweden, anyone who even downloads a mod has violated them. And even further, anyone who would attempt to sue a mod pack assembler would only be able to sue civilly for damages, which you cant do on something distributed for free. The most they could get wouldn't be worth a courts time in any country, and certainly not the cost of a lawyer. It will be nice when this information gets around and people stop talking about it. Attaching all these made up copyrights to every single mod has no legal water and just holds back and restricts the potential of the community.

In the end, everyone needs to just relax and enjoy some mods. To reference your comparison about music, if I were distributing my music for free, and someone took it and started handing it out for me, to thousands of people I couldn't reach, while giving me full credit and telling people to give me money?

Hell, I hope someone DOES do that. I'm a musician as well as an artist, and I'd jump for joy if that happened.

In fact it's kind of happened already, since I donate my art to the technic pack for use as logos, branding, and splash images. The Yogscast saw my work on the technic pack and hired me. They would never have known about me without it. Something to think about.

Quote from Cheapshot

This is a bit long, but you should read what I have to say. I have a bit of an insiders opinion on the matter.
Actually, the intention was never to share technic with the mainstream community at the start. That's why permission wasn't obtained. KakerMix assembled the pack personally after some kind of fever vision of an awesome way to play minecraft. It turned out to be amazing, and he just shared it with a few friends. I was one of those lucky test pilots so I know. From there people asked about it, and instead of explaining every little detail of a process that took days, he just shared the mods as a pack to those in his circles. From there it was leaked and spread like wildfire, so it was already too late to get permissions. Everyone was wild for technic. He did the best thing he could do and worked hard to set up a support system over time and make sure the people who had gotten it understood how to run it. As well as that, he contacted as many modders as he could and tried to get them to work together.

Wait seriously? If that is the case, than this has been a massive miss-understanding on my part. Originally I had thought that the modpack was created with intention of bringing mods to the masses, as opposed to just private use. Which now justifies not asking for permission, as there was no original intention to distribute this publicly. The mod spread like wildfire, so there was no chance to attain permission anyways.

Well, I only have one thing to say at this point:
Sorry. I really am sorry for adding fuel to a fire that shouldn't even be burning. I'm out of the discussion, and I'm not hesitant anumore with the thought of suggesting the modpack to people anymore.

Don't worry about it. It takes strong character to admit a mistake or change your mind and I respect you for it. If it's any consolation to anyone, speaking for myself since I can't speak for anyone but myself, I wish we could have gotten permission, but like I said before, it just got away like a rocket and it was too late. I'm glad it's been cleared up for you and perhaps others who might casually read this. Unfortunately people don't usually care to hear the other side of the story. Thank you for having an open mind.

If you care to spread it please do. The faster people stop sharpening their pitchforks for no reason, the more the community can grow. It may not have been the initial intention, but since technic took off and reached so many, the goal has become 100% about trying to bring modders and their work together. Of course looking back at the rest of this thread, you'll understand why this has been so difficult.

There's been some success recently with so many people jumping in to help out and with Yogscast putting themselves on the line to promote something they believe in. Sure all of us like to troll, but it's hard to resist when people work so hard to attack us, and anyone who gets to know us knows we're all cool dudes. KakerMix for sure is the biggest troll, but he gives back to the community more then anyone knows. Donates to every modder involved personally, and constantly directs traffic to everyone he can. He even donated money to me and I never asked for compensation for my art, he just felt that I deserved it.

It's amazing how long the hate has lasted. The internet is well known for bandwagoning though, so I'm not surprised. Glad to see at least one person has gotten off at the corner and bought their own transportation.

Quote from Cadde

• (...) some thousand noobs doesn't know how to use an archiver and copy files around. (It's that simple)

No it's not? Download all the mods that are in the Technic Pack, put them together, then tell us how long it took you to make it work at least somewhat decently.

Actually I think I'd spend less time getting the mods to cooperate (more or less; or outright rejecting ones that won't fit) than to download all those bloody things on their retarded ad-pages (Which my browsers block everything but the countdown on -anyway-).

Quote from 黒獅子

No it's not? Download all the mods that are in the Technic Pack, put them together, then tell us how long it took you to make it work at least somewhat decently.

Do you honestly think i want all those mods to begin with?
Now, do you think all the people getting Technic pack want's all the mods in it?

They are getting Technic pack because it's easier to install. Now, try as a noob to install another mod alongside technic pack... What's that???

I use the mods i like, i download the mods i like. I go to each and every release thread and download them until i have all the newest versions. It's not a difficult thing to do really and you are updated on any bugs/changes/fixes that occured since the previous release.

If i wanted ALL the mods that are in Technic Pack i would find a way to make them work no matter how long it takes. LOOOONG before i would download the Technic pack like a total slug baby.

Quote from Cadde

Do you honestly think i want all those mods to begin with?
Now, do you think all the people getting Technic pack want's all the mods in it?

They are getting Technic pack because it's easier to install. Now, try as a noob to install another mod alongside technic pack... What's that???

I use the mods i like, i download the mods i like. I go to each and every release thread and download them until i have all the newest versions. It's not a difficult thing to do really and you are updated on any bugs/changes/fixes that occured since the previous release.

If i wanted ALL the mods that are in Technic Pack i would find a way to make them work no matter how long it takes. LOOOONG before i would download the Technic pack like a total slug baby.

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When the mods update, a new version of technic comes out, and I'm saved all the annoyance of redownloading a bunch of different annoying adf.ly downloads. Bonus, I have the option of trying out different mods that are included that I may have overlooked.

If you don't like some of the mods in technic, turn them off. If you want different mods then are in technic and want to use technic as well, there are a ton of places to ask for help getting around minecrafts annoying item ID problem. If you don't want to use technic at all? Then don't. No one forces you to. You are free to go get all those mods on your own like you do. Whats the point of crapping all over everyone who doesn't want to have to do that though? I don't understand the weird moralistic mindset people are making up to apply to minecraft mods. It just makes people seem like lunatics.