=(Un)Offical Technic Pack Discussion Thread=

Quote from dragonherald

Had a friend who used technic pack... So I looked into it. The next day during band I cussed him out for it. There is a saying that goes like this; "possesion is 90% of the law," I believe the technic pack should be routed out, however on Mojang's TOS I didn't see any real clarification on whether or not a modders work is protected by their copyright, would be cool if i could get some clearance on that.

Well, seeing as the Official MCF has 3 sections and a subsection devoted entirely to modding, I'd say it's fine.

Also: I had originally spelled modding as nodding. Pretty funny in that context.

I'm amazed that this is still going. I thought I was pretty straight forward and covered everything but you are all just ignoring facts to make up wild reasons to get angry. Listen. There are people in here working very hard to latch on to anything they can rage about. Just let it go and relax. This is minecraft modding, not international politics. It is not worth getting your neckbeard in a knot. The guys making technic have been getting permissions from more people in the pack all the time, and it will probably be to a point where that's no longer a problem sooner then you think. I've already addressed the initial problem with permissions so that shouldn't be a point of argument anymore either. Technic has done far more good then harm, and the harm is all in the past anyway with only the good now. Whats the point of raging about it?

Technic isn't making modders go un noticed. In fact, technic is doing the exact opposite. KakerMix specifically looks for talented modders to give a leg up to by getting them a level of instant exposure that technic provides. If you are someone who makes industrial themed mods and you are talented, you WILL get technic exposure if you're cool and agree. KakerMix does infact ask for permissions now. PowerCrystals I know really appreciated being included in technic and dedicated all his modding time to improving it. It's sad to see him run out of time for it, but the fact that he's turning over his keys to technic shows how much he supports it. He's a very cool guy and there should be no speculation in here about his intentions, since he literally is in the same IRC channel as me.

As for spacetoad and flowerchild. We all know what they're really doing. They've formed a childish alliance because of attention problems, it's really as simple as that. FC literally quit forge after complaining about Eloraam and her involvement with forge, and someone pointed out that according to change logs, he'd been doing nearly nothing for quite a while and Eloraam was putting out huge fixes and changes constantly. While I know that for sure, I can't say the same for spacetoad since he's far less vocal and aggressive then FC, and can only speculate based off what's been going on. What seems likely is that since Eloraams Redpower has been adding a lot of functionality that makes BC a bit redundant in some areas. It's not an intentional dig from Eloraam but its still true. She's taken a lot of his popularity, especially since she's become so involved in technic and forge. They might as well call their new mod pack "Please don't use RedPower!"

I honestly think Spacetoad is in for a surprise though. I've got nothing against him really, I enjoy his mod when I play technic. I just think he's made a misguided decision. Especially if he's done this for the reason I stated before, because I honestly don't even think the mods fit thematically together well anyway.

The reason I feel pain for him here is because BTW's was removed from Technic for a way more serious reason then permissions, or the wolf torture and S&M crap. It was removed for a big reason. It was coded terribly and wouldn't work with anything. Literally broke the game trying to make it compatible with other mods. His mod is like a giant barbed net that wraps around minecraft. You try to add anything and you get cut, you try to take it off and it pulls important things with it. If you load it with other mods, you literally can't decide you don't like it and turn it off to just play the other ones, you have to remove everything, do a clean install, and redownload all the other mods and install them. Here's why. It's got hooks into things that don't even make sense. The game would crash every time lightening struck because it broke fire, and turning BTW's off would actually REMOVE fire. And don't even think about trying to play BTW's without all the weird wolf hate and creepy fetish things. According to the code those are vital. Spacetoad has his work cut out for him.

Quote from Shalashalska

Well, seeing as the Official MCF has 3 sections and a subsection devoted entirely to modding, I'd say it's fine.

Also: I had originally spelled modding as nodding. Pretty funny in that context.

As mentioned before, the minecraft TOS, despite what is said about modding, has an area which literally makes modding a violation of Mojangs TOS, and according to locational laws, it may even be illegal to download them inside Sweden. Woops! I'd like to know if they got a lawyer to write the TOS or of notch just copied and pasted the TOS together from google results. We know that it was Jeb who got notch to grudgingly allow mods. Haha, Who knows? He may even have put that line in there as an ace to shut down modders if he ever changed his mind.

Basically most mods can't be touched by mohjang, because they are base-class-free. They could attack the forge, modloader etc.

So as technic doen't modify base-classes it has nothing to do with Mohjang. But every modder that is included in the Tech-Pack could sue the creators for including there mod. At least they can force them to remove there mod, this is pretty easy (and cheap) if you have an insurance for this.

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As for spacetoad and flowerchild. We all know what they're really doing. They've formed a childish alliance because of attention problems, it's really as simple as that. FC literally quit forge after complaining about Eloraam and her involvement with forge, and someone pointed out that according to change logs, he'd been doing nearly nothing for quite a while and Eloraam was putting out huge fixes and changes constantly. While I know that for sure, I can't say the same for spacetoad since he's far less vocal and aggressive then FC, and can only speculate based off what's been going on. What seems likely is that since Eloraams Redpower has been adding a lot of functionality that makes BC a bit redundant in some areas. It's not an intentional dig from Eloraam but its still true. She's taken a lot of his popularity, especially since she's become so involved in technic and forge. They might as well call their new mod pack "Please don't use RedPower!"

Well first, Eloraam needs to be involved in Forge, because basically she uses quite a lot of the hooks in there. Certain people might already call it Redpower-API, but basically this isn't at all important. She has great knowledge and the dispute between her and FlowerChild was about the amount of modified base-classes. He wants modders to mod without changing baseclasses, so they won't require many hooks in Forge. Because every new base-class forge modifies makes it different to use with other APIs that modify the same class (Optifine actually had that issue). So his argument is totally valid, and the main problems will be solved if the official API is released.

Why SpaceToad and FlowerChild created BtB is quite easy. They like each others mods. It's the same reason why eloraam wants to create a combatibility module for Industrialcraft. So basically FlowerChild mods just for his own fun. He wants to create a Mod that he himself likes to play. If others like to play it too, thats good, but he doesn't care about that. Actually he don't get money from modding (he don't even use adfly-links). So thats why he drops forge, because it doesn't matter to him. It may matter to some people that play his mod, but as he stated it isn't his intention to please everyone with his mod.

SpaceToad basically improves Buildcraft via 3.x. Buildcraft still is easier to use and set up than Redpower and the powering of most simple mechanics is quite easy. That's why Buildcraft still has it's place. And Eloraam always said, that it isn't her intention to render Buildcraft useless. With the development of Redpower Buildcraft more and more becomes what it should be BUILD-Craft. The Filler and the new options to build roads, walls etc. over long distances makes Buildcraft unique again and usefull.

So basically you shouldn't quesion why a modder does this or that. They don't only create mods so that we can play with them. It is a hobby and it should be fun and if it isn't you should stop or make it fun again. And if he doesn't want BtW to be part of the technic pack that is his personal desicion and should be respected because it is his work.

How are the wall building mods working for buildcraft compared to CF foam in IC2? It was a complete PITA to setup the scaffolding and fill it in properly with the CF sprayer (it always seemed to want to leave one or two blocks unfilled); I /mostly/ worked around it by starting near the old foam first; but it was a huge pain for floors and the anti-spider edge where it would often fail to fully fill to an edge or worse fill in the supports other blocks in the shape depended upon. A more fixed system of each pellet being equal to a given number CF blocks, the filler only being refillable at empty, and the sprayer depleting as many blocks as needed for the scaffolding would be ideal.

Quote from Cheapshot

As for spacetoad and flowerchild. We all know what they're really doing. They've formed a childish alliance because of attention problems, it's really as simple as that. FC literally quit forge after complaining about Eloraam and her involvement with forge, and someone pointed out that according to change logs, he'd been doing nearly nothing for quite a while and Eloraam was putting out huge fixes and changes constantly. While I know that for sure, I can't say the same for spacetoad since he's far less vocal and aggressive then FC, and can only speculate based off what's been going on. What seems likely is that since Eloraams Redpower has been adding a lot of functionality that makes BC a bit redundant in some areas. It's not an intentional dig from Eloraam but its still true. She's taken a lot of his popularity, especially since she's become so involved in technic and forge. They might as well call their new mod pack "Pleddase don't use RedPower!"

Oh wow, stayed true to your name there, first time i feel like i have to say something in this thread after 62 posts.
Out of all these People, Spacetoad seems to me in all that gibberish the most professional of all of them. His coding is proper, he focuses on his project, he's a humble helpful guy that enjoys his mod, enjoys minecraft. In fact i never seen or heard him rant about anyone on a personal level in out in public, nor fuel any other stupid flamewars. To label him now of childish behaviour and treat flowerchild as some tainted witch that needs to be separated from the healthy community is just bullcrap and straight unfair. Mostly into the direction of Spacetoad, now i know that fanboys from all corners want flowerchild to be wiped of the planet, with usual internetbullshit reasons called "simple facts" that in fact are egoopinions since they would like to get deeper into the asses of their favourite modcreators. I can understand that to some extent but: the criticism towards Spacetoad in that matter just because he acts heaps more adult is not right!

I remain corrected but until then your creditibility took a huge hit in my book, now you can say you dont give a shit, but its time for a LOT of people here to get down from their moral horses and learn some respect or just -pardon me- shut the fuck up.

Quote from Bluehorazon

Basically most mods can't be touched by mohjang, because they are base-class-free. They could attack the forge, modloader etc.

So as technic doen't modify base-classes it has nothing to do with Mohjang. But every modder that is included in the Tech-Pack could sue the creators for including there mod. At least they can force them to remove there mod, this is pretty easy (and cheap) if you have an insurance for this.

*snip*

Technic is redistributing base classes in their mod pack are they not? They don't have to be the makers of the content to break the law.

Can someone clear this up? Copied it from power crystal's thread over on the MCF:

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And for the record, Alblaka was the very first person to grant approval to have IC2 in Technic. See how that works? You say he doesn't accept it, and yet he does and you have a foot in your mouth.

Link to the actual post: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/554413-1…st__p__11563702

Quote from ultimate_omega

Can someone clear this up? Copied it from power crystal's thread over on the MCF:

Link to the actual post: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/554413-1…st__p__11563702

Alblaka already confirmed this on the first page of this thread.

Doesn't shine too brightly on Alblaka by giving them permission while they are still using other peoples mods without permission.

Alblaka just can't wait for others.

Imagine every modder will only give permission if the others have did. Then you need to get permission from all at the same time. So Alblaka just agreed that IC2 could be used in this mod-pack. That doesn't in any means says something about how he thinks about using mods without permission.

@Cadda:

I guess the techpack includes the forge... so jepp it is mohjang-Copyright. But IC2 should be base-class free, so Mohjang shouldn't be able to do anything against it. Again it is funny enough that the Forge-creators own the modifications in the baseclasses^^. So basically if mohjang want to implement Forge-things they basically have to ask the creators if they use there code or programm it themself. Would be rather unimportant, because most Forge-developers would like there work to be in minecraft itself, but sometimes such cases show how damn stupid copyright is.

Well, if you're upset about what I've said then I apologize. As for my views on Spacetoad? What I said is only my own speculation and opinion. I said so. I could be wrong, but I'm waiting to see. No need to get all upset over some words on the internet. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I'm just pointing out an alternate viewpoint, since the conversation began to lean toward the usual FlowerChild white knighting. Being involved with technic, I get to experience the finer points of the modding community up close, and honestly they aren't pretty. The word community is a mislabel. Every change to a mod gets misconstrued as a jab at another modder. Egos rub constantly. Every modder hates at least one other modder. Seeing all the drama up close? I'm amazed mods even get made. You'll have to forgive me if that tints my opinion.

In the end it doesn't really matter. Technic pack works on getting permissions, and has had a lot of success there. Technic benefits the modders involved substantially. What the modders included in technic pack do is their own affair and no one else's. They can sue, or demand apologies or whatever they like, but in the end its their business. KakerMix hasn't recieved any summons to international claims court, and instead spends a good deal of his time speaking with modders and trying to promote them and the community. Everyone arguing all the time doesn't help or do anything. The whole situation reminds me of a fantasy football management game. Does not effect real life football.

Quote from sirbrandino

I haven't read all the points but here is my view on the whole thread.
Personally I believe the technic pack creators should give an apology for not getting permission, as it seems that they think it's all a big misunderstanding. Even if the mod creators are ok with it now, it doesn't mean it was alright to put it in a modpack to begin with. The argument of it growing quickly out of control does not stand as a defense, but rather an explanation. I feel they should be apologizing for their inability to not ask for permission and move on.

How can you give your view on the whole thread if you haven't read it? It's only four pages long and very slow moving. The permissions issue has already been cleared up extensively.

I grabbed the technic pack and stripped all the mods from it and just put in the MODs I use with my configs. Just to save me time from placing everything where need be.

Just using it as a installer at this point and check updates for it to see if there are any MODs worth trying out to go with the rest of the ones I have.

As for the whole copyright thing, I'm sure with the built-in API that is suppost to come out this month. May change how MODs are coded/installed making class files not have to edited after that, so we'll see how things go after that.

Carl Manneh said "in January", but that's outright impossible.

Quote from Alblaka

The last official thing i heard was Jeb commenting "not before March". Unless i've missed something somewhere...

Next month is just what I heard, on Minecraft monday (I believe)

Edit:
Nevermind we are suppose to get more info about the MOD API at somepoint this month.

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I grabbed the technic pack and stripped all the mods from it and just put in the MODs I use with my configs. Just to save me time from placing everything where need be.

You know, ID Resolver does this job alot better... and it even has added functions now to adjust mods that stubbornly want to cling to properties.files when they don't want to give up ID's like they should. I've used it since 1.7.3, and it hasn't failed me since the Forge versions have been released...

Granted, you will get that one mod that doesn't want to play with it right, but it's still a quick fix when that happens...

Quote from Cheapshot

The reason I feel pain for him here is because BTW's was removed from Technic for a way more serious reason then permissions, or the wolf torture and S&M crap. It was removed for a big reason. It was coded terribly and wouldn't work with anything. Literally broke the game trying to make it compatible with other mods. His mod is like a giant barbed net that wraps around minecraft. You try to add anything and you get cut, you try to take it off and it pulls important things with it. If you load it with other mods, you literally can't decide you don't like it and turn it off to just play the other ones, you have to remove everything, do a clean install, and redownload all the other mods and install them. Here's why. It's got hooks into things that don't even make sense. The game would crash every time lightening struck because it broke fire, and turning BTW's off would actually REMOVE fire. And don't even think about trying to play BTW's without all the weird wolf hate and creepy fetish things. According to the code those are vital. Spacetoad has his work cut out for him.

Let's see you expect FC to recode everything in BTW so that it plays nice with other mods? Have you any idea how much work that is?

Besides the entire idea behind a mod pack is dumb, all it's going to lead to is people begging the authors to stop adding blocks to their mod so that they can use other mods.

Quote from Brethern

Let's see you expect FC to recode everything in BTW so that it plays nice with other mods? Have you any idea how much work that is?

Besides the entire idea behind a mod pack is dumb, all it's going to lead to is people begging the authors to stop adding blocks to their mod so that they can use other mods.

I don't expect anything is what I'm saying. My money is on that project not getting very far for exactly that reason. FC wont want to change any of his code and Spacetoad will have a real hard time. Maybe not though. We'll see.

Also no way man. Have you seen the SMP bukkit version of Technic? It's awesome. You can have as many blocks as you'd like. We've got mods upon mods on our server. Luxury minecrafting right there.