[Suggestion/Discoussion] More compatiblity for BC

1st Official Post
    • Official Post

    I see that BC dies, because of the awesomeness and bugfreeness of Redpower. I know some people suggested something similar to this, and its on the TO-DO-List, but these Treads are old and we need more uses for BC aside from burning Oil/Fuel. The only unique thing of BC is Oil (and the compatiblity to Forestry) and Oil is the most industrial Resource i know.



    I suggest to add Oilsupport into Core-IC² (I know there are buggy Addons for that), to make BC at least for something usefull. Maybe you got another Idea.


    Now the Objects, which i (and the following posts of you) suggest:


    - Dieselgenerator to run on BC-Fuel (recipe maybe Generator + Tank)
    - Turbine to run on BC-Energy (recipe could be Windmill + some Reinforcements)
    - Electric Engines like Forestry (made of Goldgears and Gold to give Gold a use)


    Indeed are my three Ideas are obvious, but we have enough Generator-Metadata left for it, to not waste ID's.


    This is more a Discoussionpage for uses of BC in IC², than a Suggestion, so Post your Ideas here.


    At least i want the following Compatiblity:
    The normal Generator should at least accept BC-Fuelbuckets as Fuel (somehow hardcoded) to give that Fuel a use, OR a Canningmachinerecipe to fill Fuelbuckets into empty Fuelbottles (or whatever it was named) and make it at least compatible.

    agreed on the additional generators part,


    it seems a lot of ppl want new generators (including me) so making it compatable with BC Fuel (no oil) seems only more then fair.


    forge hooks might be needed for this, but it shouldt be an real isue to code i presume (correct me if i am wrong)
    as the fuel part, it needs to be refined to run in an nice generator. (or crude oil with les eff (i dont know))


    the turbine to transfer bc energy to eu... wel, typing it out:


    one bucket of fuel inside an combustion engine (lets say for demonstrations sake 50k of power) should transfer into 50k of eu.
    while on bucket of fuel inside an generator should equal the same 50k eu.


    as far as that goes, i dont know further. maybe someone else?

    right, time to get serious...
    i wil be offline for weeks and possibly months at an time. if you have anything to add to an post i made, and would like me to know. you are welcome to pm me, and i wil reply as soon as i am able to do so.

    I would like to see direct BC compatibility in IC2, but for reasons that nobody else has raised yet: balance, stability, and efficiency.


    Balance: Most of the BC<->IC2 mods seem to think that the conversion should be lossless. That is patently ridiculous. You're converting between two very different forms of energy; it should be highly lossy. 20% or more each direction, preferably configurable. Further, recall that Buildcraft's Combustion Engines rely entirely upon non-renewable resources. Attaining that level of buildcraft power should require considerably more resources and/or EUs, or else finding oil becomes unimportant. The IC2 team has shown that they understand balance, so I would very much like to see how they would handle it.


    Stability/efficiency: I've run into serious issues with every compatibility mod I've tried. Either one of the converters makes me lag to hell if I'm near it, or one of them is buggy enough to be frustrating. Again, these are issues that the IC2 team is used to, and by handling it themselves, we discard the hydra that is current compatibility mods: what one mod fixes, the next may break all over again.

    • Official Post
    Quote from FunnyMan3595

    Balance: Most of the BC<->IC2 mods seem to think that the conversion should be lossless. That is patently ridiculous. You're converting between two very different forms of energy; it should be highly lossy. 20% or more each direction, preferably configurable. Further, recall that Buildcraft's Combustion Engines rely entirely upon non-renewable resources. Attaining that level of buildcraft power should require considerably more resources and/or EUs, or else finding oil becomes unimportant. The IC2 team has shown that they understand balance, so I would very much like to see how they would handle it.


    Stability/efficiency: I've run into serious issues with every compatibility mod I've tried. Either one of the converters makes me lag to hell if I'm near it, or one of them is buggy enough to be frustrating. Again, these are issues that the IC2 team is used to, and by handling it themselves, we discard the hydra that is current compatibility mods: what one mod fixes, the next may break all over again.

    That's correct and i hope they will not make an 1:1-Ratio, because thats too EE-ish and unrealistic for me. Every CrossoverMod is either buggy, cheatish, exploitable or no longer maintained. The only Solution would be that one of the greater Devs (Alblaka in our case) will maintain it in the Core of IC². Thats why i suggested this compatiblity to BC.

    This kind of thing is up for the Crossover Mod. We already have geos behaving like liquid tanks, our cells being accepted in tanks/machines (insertion only) and gates.


    Fact #392: I chose not to add water mill piping because it would be hard to code in an update mechanism AND it would be terribly overpowered, making more EU at the mere cost of a few pipes, a pump and an engine

    • Official Post
    Quote from RichardG

    This kind of thing is up for the Crossover Mod. We already have geos behaving like liquid tanks, our cells being accepted in tanks/machines (insertion only) and gates.


    Fact #392: I chose not to add water mill piping because it would be hard to code in an update mechanism AND it would be terribly overpowered, making more EU at the mere cost of a few pipes, a pump and an engine

    I suggested a Generator that works with Fuel (exactly like Geothermal) and an optional BC-Energyconverter.


    The normal Generator should at least accept BC-Fuelbuckets as Fuel (somehow hardcoded) to give that Fuel a use. Or a Canningmachinerecipe to fill Fuelbuckets into empty Fuelcans and make it at least compatible.


    Watermills are also running of Redpower, so theres no need for Piping it in there, oh and it's OP.

    Quote from RichardG

    I am considering oil and fuel as iron furnace and generator fuels.

    i think that's something every one can agree on

    true balance is impossible in video games the best one can hope for is to make it really hard to guess which of 2 choices are better.
    and remember kids "NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF JOKES!"

    I agree, makes sense. You don't need another generator just for that, a generator is already a combustion based power source. Hence, thermal power plants are the most comon nowadays in the world.

    Quote from GregoriusT

    I see that BC dies, because of the awesomeness and bugfreeness of Redpower. (...)

    I might be wrong but I don't see BC dying, especially with the cool features that some BC addons like Logistic Pipes, Additional Pipes and others provide (Yes, teleport pipes are overpowered and should be seperated from the rest of the addon).
    Sengir and Krapht did a pretty good job after they took over BC from Spacetoad, granted the fact that they didnt add any new features that are noteworthy. Of course Sengir has his hands full with maintaining Forestry.

    Quote

    (...) Further, recall that Buildcraft's Combustion Engines rely entirely upon non-renewable resources.(...)

    Not if you are using Forestry where you can produce Biofuel. At that point you become independent from oil.


    I like the ideas but I'm not sure if it's the right approach to work solely on IC2/BC compatibility. The other mods should be taken into account as well.
    Won't run further off-topic.



    PS: Sorry, I'm a noob but how do I add quotes from two or more different people so that it shows every person I quoted?

    • Official Post
    Quote from Honeybadga

    I might be wrong but I don't see BC dying, especially with the cool features that some BC addons like Logistic Pipes, Additional Pipes and others provide (Yes, teleport pipes are overpowered and should be seperated from the rest of the addon).
    Sengir and Krapht did a pretty good job after they took over BC from Spacetoad, granted the fact that they didnt add any new features that are noteworthy. Of course Sengir has his hands full with maintaining Forestry.


    PS: Sorry, I'm a noob but how do I add quotes from two or more different people so that it shows every person I quoted?

    If you are a real MC-Engineer then you will never need BC, if you have ComputercraftTurtles and Redpower pr5a.

    Quote from GregoriusT

    If you are a real MC-Engineer then you will never need BC, if you have ComputercraftTurtles and Redpower pr5a.

    I take it you are a "real MC-Engineer", yet while "not needing" BC, you open a thread promoting the improvement of IC/BC compatibility?

    Quote from Honeybadga

    I take it you are a "real MC-Engineer", yet while "not needing" BC, you open a thread promoting the improvement of IC/BC compatibility?


    He just want something to make BC "not entirely unnecessary" to him, and i have been thinking the same, i only keep it for the builder mostly.

    i see. sorry for the misunderstanding then. however is ordering stuff via the logistics network unnecessary or simply too easy? you want more of a challenge and therefore use mainly RP2 tubes?

    BC is still alive. It has :
    - autocraft table (almost the only under forge);
    - gates (almost the only way to know most block's states);
    - two great addons (which should be incorporated imho);
    - large scale machines like quarry and builder (kind of magic but works);
    - simple transport system (Eloraam's are better);
    - simple energy system (Eloraam's are better, IC2 too);
    - something else I forgot.
    To kill BC you need alternatives for all sides.


    -Tube stuff from immibis and isn't exclusive to buildcraft only.
    -True.But im expecting sooner or later something to do the same stuff gates do from either RP2 Computers or Computer Craft. Heck programming our own gates from ingame will be a pretty interesting thing.
    -What addons?
    -Magic Blocks Meh. Besides with the release of frames Redpower will cover that but in a more elegant manner (No magic blocks yay)
    -Yep
    -Yep
    -?


    Buildcraft may not be dead yet, but it will soon be if it doesn't release something really interesting soon.

    Quote from FenixR

    -What addons?

    - Krapht's Logistic Pipes
    - Flow86's Additional Buildcraft Objects
    - Zeldo's/DaStormbringer's Additional Pipes
    - Krapht's Sneaky Pipes


    + some unique features like the architect table/ builder


    Oh and I like the tanks more than RP2's and how BC handles liquids in general but that's just my opinion.