The Ultimate Industrial Frame Engineering Challenge(s) - TUIFEC

  • Nice set up you got there gaxx, just one question:

    Why is this necessary? From the looks of things, you're activating the movement with redstone, so why not just add an appropriate delay based on how long you know it takes to move and wire that out. Also what's the pulse even for?

    it's for synchronizing with the walls. the outer walls will be a quarry like door, looking kinda like this prototype (rotate by 90°, i messed this up the direction while monotonously placing lots of blocks)

    when a wall and a drive direction is activated together, it will do this: open, move, close, move, open, move,..... and breaking everything in front of the wall while opening/closing. activating both is slower since the drive can't move while the walls are active but i don't want to move slowly when the walls are offline. that's why i needed a system capable of the modi: drive only, wall only, drive-wall synchronization.
    everything in my ship does something in 1s ticks regulated by Timer. in theory a wall needs 3s to open/close and 2s to move, so my first design was by regulating everything with a counter configured as 6/2/3.
    in practice this absolutely doesn't work!!!! the reason is bluetricity. the ship is big. it's normal that a motor needs to completely recharge once it moved. so the case that you have to wait 3-4 ticks before it actually moves is common. the same could happen to the walls.
    another reason was a malfunction that could be caused by deactivating the walls while the drive is still active. in wall-drive mode the 3ticks of wall switch to drive, 2ticks of drive switch to wall. if you deactivate the wall while the drive is active it switches to "drive only". so while the wall is in the middle of an unknown state the drive completly resets the Counter, setting the unknown state of the wall as default. to correct that you had to manually move to the logic section where that is managed and repair it.
    that's not user friendly!


    in case it was hard to understand, the old system had two problems
    first: the wall had several states: wall open<->wall1<->wall2<->wall closed where only "wall open" and "wall closed" are of interest but you could crash it so it would think wall1 or wall2 are important which needed manual repair
    second: the drive could switch back to wall mode without having moved


    the new system defines states only by actual physical states of wall or drive (redstone torches that disconnect when moved and reconnect at interesting state)
    that way for the wall has only the states "wall open" and "wall closed" which prevents breaking. you can still temporary break the mechanism by deactivating the wall while it opens but that will repair itself by going into "wall only" mode and pressing the "reset button" i'll need anyway for "wall only". i don't want to explain that right here, would go away from the topic for some time ^ ^
    for the drive it prevents switching to wall when ship hasn't moved without slowing down the drive below it's capable speed
    the switch between both is managed by a Counter with 1/1/1


    i know all that because i've build a prototype testing side simulation everything, so all that is the result of heavy testing with redstone logic.

    that's a newest prototype. left is the wall logic, right the drive logic. the chicken is not part of the circuit 8) the wires that leave the system at the bottom of the picture are part of the wall-lock mechanism, preventing the activation of a wall while another wall is not closed.
    PS: a wall in a bad state with the old system would have also malfunctioned all other walls since it occupies the space the other wall wants to expand into. i think that will be obvious once i can show you a picture of the complete ship ;)


    PSS: the vast majority of all logic involved in this ship is for managing the walls. quite extensive for a feature that's not even demanded :D


    PSSS: sry for the wall of text as answer :pinch:

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Gaxx ().

  • finally i have something that looks like a ship^^
    here it is, in all its intimidating beauty.

    it's 32block³ big, capable of everything around mining, storage and processing as well as "eating" everything blocking its way in 4 directions. it also takes my PC quiet some time to calculate a move :D


    here is a picture of the function test after i had installed the last wall.

    the ship had to go through a 4block thick hindrance (the plank blocks still visible at the sides) to pass the test. you can also see what it looks like when a wall is open.


    after that it could be complete but i still have a lot of "beautification" to do. the interior still looks like a construction side everywhere. there's still the relocation of the command centre as well as the construction of the captain's quarter to do.

  • am i the only one thinking that those blockbreaker-layouts just suck ?


    srsly you are forced to use zig-zag movements to mine .. lame imho.



    not ready for screenshots yet, but im using MFFS to break the blocks and atm thaumcraft seals to pick up the drops. works like a charm.



    except that im forced to build a lap-crystal swapping mechanism :/

  • am i the only one thinking that those blockbreaker-layouts just suck ?


    srsly you are forced to use zig-zag movements to mine .. lame imho.

    Eloraam planned already Frameimbedded Tubes/Redwires/Bluewires which solve your Problem.

  • jep, you are^^ i think it looks great and it also makes slim! (longitudinal stripes have that effect :P)
    as long as you have at least one side where you can insert and extract from it's possible. if you have even more sides it's even more simply.
    with at least two sides you can build a simple circle system. if you have only one it's getting complicated
    you have to place a tube and transponser/filter next to each other and let them switch places via frames so that only one of them connects tube system with machine. the storage system can contain both entry and exit, managed by colours. that way you can switch a single tube system between insertion and extraction. i did the same with my first mining drill control system where i stored all drills in a chest until i wanted to activate the miners (found a better way later ;) )


    sounds like an interesting idea and can be reconfigured into a weapon system, i like :D


    Eloraam planned already Frameimbedded Tubes/Redwires/Bluewires which solve your Problem.


    totally necessary! could probably reduce the size of my ship by 10blocks

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Gaxx ().

  • Got some reports of the frame compatibility in 1.97 working. Move away your electric blocks!

    As soon as I get my install working and I learn the basics, I'll be taking a stab at this. I have my ideas.


    Could someone point me to a decent guide so that I could learn the drive basics?

  • As soon as I get my install working and I learn the basics, I'll be taking a stab at this. I have my ideas.


    Could someone point me to a decent guide so that I could learn the drive basics?


    how much of a "guide" are you looking for?
    more info inside the spoiler tags in case you don't want it completely explained.

  • As soon as I get my install working and I learn the basics, I'll be taking a stab at this. I have my ideas.


    Could someone point me to a decent guide so that I could learn the drive basics?

    try this Compact 6-Axis Frame Engine
    most people use this design and it's very simple, perfect to analyse and learn the basics of how a drive works. you don't need those transmitter for it, too. you can connect it easily with wires from below.
    the rest is to learn how frames work, what they can and can't do and get practice. once your construction hits a decent framesize you'll have gained enough experience to make everything work with close to zero bugs.
    also test a lot. having a 6-directional drive works perfect for that. everytime you've installed something new make a check by moving it into every direction once. its very unusual that an unconnected part will block every direction. once your ship moved you just have to look which part isn't where it has to be and you've found your bug, but that also includes building nothing to big without testing or the bugs will mutliply, blocking every direction which makes them hard to locate. i just had to scrap several hours of work because i had exactly that and just couldn't find the cause.
    last but not least: always have a copy of your world that isn't completely outdated. when a frame by accident disconnects a tube which holds an item it's game over (permanent save-chunk-error).

  • so i finished my mining vessel after about a day.
    Heres an photo gallery trying to show and tell how this ship work as good i can..Photo gallery just download the ship and check it out for yourself if you want!
    I'm using the Ic2 miners! fully working dock! 8o :thumbup: :thumbsup:

    Building building what am i doing....... :huh:

  • Since Frames appear to be quite operational in combination with IC, contest is "recontinued" as in, you can submit your entries now.

    There's been a few potential solutions to the galactic mining vessel in the last few pages which should all work perfectly now.

  • I worked yet more time to make this video explaining it even better and showing of everything and how to fix two bugs! With the mfsu/batbox/mfe and the miner
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr9nIXG7SpY :thumbup:


    hehe i've seen multiple chests with filter in your construction :D
    try using >>Relay<<s instead. they are small chest which emit every item put into them into the connected pipe, without the lag caused by timers. if you need to recolor an item, just put a filter behind that (caution: relays won't connect directly to filter for some reason, put a tube in between). i think that would also solve your lag problem for the sorting mechanism :thumbup:
    it's just to bad that Miners refuse to use relays as chests so we're forced to use timer for this *evilStareAtAlblaka*

  • I saw in the change note that you fix a crash with reactor chambers. Is that related to the moving of reactors with frames and do our ship have to use reactors now if it is?

  • caution: relays won't connect directly to filter for some reason, put a tube in between

    We definetly need Colortaggingsupport for Relays and Ejectors, but with my huge surplus of Filters, after migrating to Sortingmachines, thats no real Problem for me.

  • Hey guys, i was working on a RP-Frame-Motor-"airship" but then the thingy was to big and now i had to edit the linksize.
    But i Cant find it nowhere Oo i red your topic but its not like one said in redpower.cfg theres simply no "linksize" value... i may picked the wrong folder or stuff
    I hope you can help me :)