Idea on how to improve solar panels (make them less OP)

1st Official Post

    I just watched xKillerbees latest lets play,and he has a point - solar panels are broken and OP right now.You place them,and dont think about them - at all,ever again.I was watching a show on discovery last night,and it was about solar panels somewhere in Spain,im probably wrong but yeah,where they have hundreds of them,and almost every day they have to replace few panels - not the whole thing,just panels,wich made me think of an idea - what if we had panels that would wore out after time,and then we had to replace them?Not the whole block,just simple right click and put in panel.Im sure this has been sugested before,but theres an addition to this idea - different types of panels.Some that wore out fast,but produce more energy,and vice versa,some that cost less to make,but produce less energy and last short (for begginers),and some that are extremely powerfull and extremely expensive to make.


    System would be simple - right click solar panel,input panel in right slot,panel has a bar (like batterys and tools have),and is lowering down while solar panel is producing energy.I think it would be real easy to code for Albalka (keeping in mind that his skill in coding),and it would be cool neat thing we could have in IC2.What do you guys think?

    Really depends on whether the solars we use are PV or Thermal.


    Thermals (reflect light onto a point where a heat transfer liquid is heated then run through a heat exchange system into a more conventional steam turbine) really require very little maintenance. mirror polishing / array drive maintenance really.


    PV does burn out, but tbh, as we improve their design this becomes less and less of an issue.


    Personally I feel like the set+forget nature of solars is a fair benefit relative to the cost (1 whole generator block) and output (1 ev)


    not to mention the cost of arraying them to get a significant production rate. (tin is rare on my maps, so i wire with copper, and that gets into more batboxes/etc)


    Maybe ratchet down the output from 1 ev to 0.something. (not sure if that's mechanically possible)

    Yeah,place+forget system is going for sure,its like confirmed by Albalka (atleast xKillberbees says so) - it pushes down every other type of generator except maybe reactors (wich are going to waste a lot of resources before you realise what you are doing),and even by this fact its OP.Its just a matter how will new system look.

    Perhaps they could provide less power while it's raining or snowing. They'd be less reliable over time that way. In the case of snow, you'd have to clear the snow.

    I agree to sume degree, but that still be too easy.


    Maybe if it would have same kind of minigame as reactors do, like placement dependant solar panel array in the solar colector block. Which on it's own would stop after time and have to be maintainded as the reactors do.

    So all our epic solar panel arrays that we can barely get to have to be maintained now?


    It costs 8 Iron, 4 Tin, 3 cable, 2 redstone, 3 coal powder, and 3 glass per solar panel, these only output .5 EU/t. The only reason I use them is because of their passive status (They don't generate crap for power). I'd rather go underground, get a bucket of lava, and get more output from a Geothermal (which I do occasionally solely because solar arrays can't power my base enough).


    The point is for lower tier play, Solar Panels are vital how they are. Once you hit anything serious there's no point to have them except for running basics (unless somehow you have 3,000,000 Iron lying about) Personally I'd say Geothermal would become the big one if Al would just make the power plant allow Liquid Pipes.

    Quote from Alblaka

    Still remember the convo ending with "No, stop bugging me, cables transmitting energy are totally not possible! Use the batterys."

    Quote from Shadowclaimer

    So all our epic solar panel arrays that we can barely get to have to be maintained now?


    It costs 8 Iron, 4 Tin, 3 cable, 2 redstone, 3 coal powder, and 3 glass per solar panel, these only output .5 EU/t. The only reason I use them is because of their passive status (They don't generate crap for power). I'd rather go underground, get a bucket of lava, and get more output from a Geothermal (which I do occasionally solely because solar arrays can't power my base enough).


    The point is for lower tier play, Solar Panels are vital how they are. Once you hit anything serious there's no point to have them except for running basics (unless somehow you have 3,000,000 Iron lying about) Personally I'd say Geothermal would become the big one if Al would just make the power plant allow Liquid Pipes.


    8 iron? only if you do it the expensive way. I use 8 cobble, 5 iron and 1 refined iron.


    sure it "only" saves 2 but 1: i'm cheap like that (and with a BC2 factory it's basically no more effort) and 2: every little bit helps. I've got 160 solar panel now, it adds up.

    I don't get where people think solar doesn't put out much power... 1eu/t is 20eu per second, or 1200eu per minute. It's a hefty amount of power...


    And if you want to make comparisons of costs... A stable always-on nuclear reactor typically puts out what? 60eu/t? Compare the planning and resource costs involved in that to a mere 60 generators and some macerated stone & coal.

    Quote from Shadowclaimer

    So all our epic solar panel arrays that we can barely get to have to be maintained now?


    It costs 8 Iron, 4 Tin, 3 cable, 2 redstone, 3 coal powder, and 3 glass per solar panel, these only output .5 EU/t. The only reason I use them is because of their passive status (They don't generate crap for power). I'd rather go underground, get a bucket of lava, and get more output from a Geothermal (which I do occasionally solely because solar arrays can't power my base enough).


    The point is for lower tier play, Solar Panels are vital how they are. Once you hit anything serious there's no point to have them except for running basics (unless somehow you have 3,000,000 Iron lying about) Personally I'd say Geothermal would become the big one if Al would just make the power plant allow Liquid Pipes.

    Well the thing is, by the time you get your Q-suit your done, no need for more power, mass fab is in play, your solars doing the job...
    So you don't need reactors or other generators, becouse by the time you finaly waste your Q-suit parts' energy even few dedicated solars would build up eneugh energy for them to be recharged... Thats the problem, tier 1 power supply for late late game.


    Now I had a thouth, maybe if solars would require a advanced machine block, and would be a higher in tier ir would be fair.

    I have another idea- The PANELS burn out (the ones on the top) and you have to right click on the solar panel with coal dust.. The panels would have a 1/8 chance to burn out every time it switches from night to day.

    Quote

    It has become a little stubbly. Implement facial hair growth in IC²? Vision continuously grows more furry until you shave. (approx once every 2 minecraft days ;P)


    Steve shaves with his chainsaw.
    Check out Factorio- A game where you build a factory from scratch.

    So I've posted this several other places. I agree 100% that renewable energy in general is way too OP, with solar being the worst culprit because it requires the least planning and effort to install.


    So I made the following tweaks :
    Solar output is HALVED. It's still good because it's easy to setup, but half the power is a lot more fair compared to nonrenewable energy.
    Wind Output reduced by 30% (so 70% of the old output). It's still really good compared to solar, the only downside of wind if you need a lot of space and a lot of wiring and transformers and more setup time. More effort and planning on the part of the player = more reward.
    Water Generators only work if the block near them is moving when they are in passive mode. They are un-nerfed in active mode, so are really good if you set up an automated bucket feed system. Again, that's planning and effort done by the player.


    Nuclear Fuel lasts five times longer. Nuclear always required HUGE amounts of planning and effort to build reactors that don't explode, and there's a lot of work needed just to assemble the parts for 1 reactor. So the output/tick is unchanged but longer fuel life means it is more competitive with renewable energy, instead of exhausting fuel in a couple hours. (while you could stay afk for a week with solar and get ridiculous amounts of EU)


    Yes, there was always nuclear breeding, but breeding is a lot more tending and micro and it's flat out dangerous.


    Everything else is unchanged.

    Quote

    So I've posted this several other places. I agree 100% that renewable energy in general is way too OP, with solar being the worst culprit because it requires the least planning and effort to install.


    So I made the following tweaks :
    Solar output is HALVED. It's still good because it's easy to setup, but half the power is a lot more fair compared to nonrenewable energy.


    Why do people seem to cling to the foolish notion that reducing solar output will solve anything? All it will do is lead to people using twice as many solars!



    Simple construction fixes that would move the production (not the output) of solars into T2 levels, yet remain reasonable:


    1) Carbon Plates instead of coal dust. The coal cost per solar is increased by a factor of 4, plus a little energy to compress them.


    2) Reinforced Glass instead or regular glass: Essentially adds the cost of an alloy plate per solar (well, 6/7ths of it).


    Not drastic changes, but ones that require a compressor, more materials, and a bit of extra energy to make.

    • Official Post


    I like the general idea. Solars got nerfed by reimplementing the old circuit recipe and i think adding carbon fiebers instead of carbon dust (not carbon plates though) would be a neat buff for the importance of coal, as well.

    Increasing the construction cost or reducing the output have the exact same net effect : reducing the EU/material invested. Reducing the output is easier to do because I don't have to update the client to reflect a new recipe.


    I use the solar lag fix so twice as many solars are not a big problem for me. Plus, I like the idea that a decent solar array has to be gigantic in space on the ground.

    Agreed - but reducing the output won't change that - if anything, it will make it worse. So the key is to make other forms of energy more feasible when available.


    I wouldn't mind using wind, but the sound causes some serious lag (looks like it's all handled by software, not the sound hardware). Nuclear power is good, but if it was the best option, more people with mass fabs would use it. Not being able to synthesize uranium from UU-M might factor into that too.

    Quote from BrickedKeyboard


    Increasing the construction cost or reducing the output have the exact same net effect : reducing the EU/material invested. Reducing the output is easier to do because I don't have to update the client to reflect a new recipe.


    That's one of the net effects. But increasing the construction cost means fewer are needed - and even if you get less lag with the fix, it's still better for a server overall to have fewer of them.


    And if we're talking about what something "should" look like, then nuclear reactors are far too small, don't you agree?

    Quote from Alblaka

    I like the general idea. Solars got nerfed by reimplementing the old circuit recipe and i think adding carbon fiebers instead of carbon dust (not carbon plates though) would be a neat buff for the importance of coal, as well.

    I'm glad you like the idea. What do you think of the need for reinforced glass? It would make sense, considering that the panels need no maintenance once deployed.

    I'm never one in favor of "nerfs" because the implication is that something changes not because of an inherent problem but because others come up short.


    I'm more in favor of finding out why other forms of power generation aren't used and making them properly effective. My recommendations are merely intended to offer a way to keep the rest of it pretty much as is. But I'll trust in your vision for the mod.