Don't expect mods for 1.7 for a long time, says cpw

Epic Lulz · Oct 25th 2013

Quote from MagusUnion

It's not. Mojang is foolishly pushing forward for its own content, and has decided against trying to add community based work for-the-moment as a whole. I don't foresee a change in this policy...

Since Jeb took over Mojang, there has been a bit of a development drift from small aspects being added into a large sand-box (Notch style) to more organized rewrites and story driven content to add theme (Jeb style). For a good period of time, this was all fine and good. But since Jeb and the Mojang team have taken it upon themselves to flesh out Minecraft into more of an adventure RPG world, rather than an open sand box of creativity, they have ignored the community contributions and begun doing as they like in result...

It was Notch's haphazard laziness that prevented us from getting a Mod API before the official Minecraft release. Now, it appears that Jeb and Dinnerbone have changed objectives entirely, and would rather just continuously add content in a DLC like manner than focus on creating official tools for community creations. Which is a shame, since I think a valuable, educational, golden opportunity could have been seized had they allowed more official support for Minecraft modding...

Maybe not so much. I think Dinnerbone said somewhere on his Twitter feed that most of the newer changes would bring them a few steps closer to the Mod API, but it would cause modders trouble in the meantime.

- 1.2: Increase of world height to 256. Gives some biodiversity and environmental mods more space to develop.
- 1.3: Merger of SSP and SMP. This did throw quite a big problem (some mods like RedPower never truly recovered) but modders have to maintain 1 version instead of 2 separate but similar versions.
- 1.4: Not a lot of changes (except maybe some NBT data improvements), and there was little trouble for modders upgrading to 1.4 from 1.3.
- 1.5: Texture pack changes, now more modular and also ensures some future texture-compatibility for texture pack makers.
- 1.6: New launcher helps setting up multiple instances for mod users, providing convenience.
- 1.7 (upcoming): Depreciation of IDs removes many bogus bug reports, and cleaning up of 500 000 lines of code definitely makes Minecraft smoother and improves the quality of a hypothetical mod API. Biome mods are possibly less "hacky", the sound engine may let modders add better sounds than before. EDIT: Yes, and packet rework too, that will be a trouble. (Thanks RawCode)

All the odd number changes (1.3, 1.5, 1.7) posed/will pose a big problem to modders, but they are bringing us closer to the mod API (whenever that is).

RawCode · Oct 25th 2013

sounds are not essential.
biomes can be skipped without pain.

any why everyone forget about netIO rework, this is only part that will delay forge, everything else can be left without hooks and will fly anyway.

Omicron · Oct 25th 2013

Quote from MagusUnion

Since Jeb took over Mojang... *snip*

I think I physically cringed when reading this post. How exactly has Minecraft become less of a sandbox? How exactly does the game not support something anymore that it used to?

You seem to have a severe disconnect between your personal definition of "sandbox" and the actual meaning of the word.

SpwnX · Oct 25th 2013

Quote from Omicron

I think I physically cringed when reading this post. How exactly has Minecraft become less of a sandbox? How exactly does the game not support something anymore that it used to?

You seem to have a severe disconnect between your personal definition of "sandbox" and the actual meaning of the word.

The addition of enderdragon turned MC into a RPG with an objective, although you can still keep the sandbox style after you defeat it.

SirusKing · Oct 25th 2013

I kind of like how updates kind of clear out the old mods, for a new generation of em.

Geo Terra · Oct 25th 2013

Quote from SpwnX

The addition of enderdragon turned MC into a RPG with an objective, although you can still keep the sandbox style after you defeat it.

Not in the strictest sense SpwnX. You don't HAVE to go and defeat the Enderdragon, it's just something ~99% of Minecrafters do. I, personally, have decided to try to avoid the End just to make obtaining Ender Pearls harder for me.

Omicron · Oct 25th 2013

Not even that. It's mostly the silly story bit that scrolls through after you take the portal back - that's the one thing that doesn't fit. And you can cancel out of that with ESC, if I recall correctly, and return right to your regularly scheduled block games.

And if you have no wish to read that, then there is absolutely no reason to go kill the Ender Dragon. None. Nada. It's completely optional. Even the Wither has a better reason for killing it than the Ender Dragon, because at least the Wither drops something that's an ingredient in a recipe!

Ultimately, the dragon ends up working more like a secret exploration feature than an actual game goal (considering nothing ingame even tells you to go kill it in the first place). A player stumbles upon a stronghold, activates the portal, comes up in another dimension that's completely empty? Boring! But if that dimension has a giant freaking dragon that's trying to eat you, and you don't expect it, that's an awesome feeling of discovery. And you can then do whatever ou want with it. Preserve the cool dragon? No disadvantage to the player. Kill him because you can? No disadvantage to the player. Kill him and then set up a new base in The End because you like the look of the starfield? No disadvantage to the player. You can make your own rules. It's just another part ofthe sandbox. Heck, I've seen people PortalGun the little healing crystal thingies to the overworld and use them as decorative elements in building, because they could. There's nothing about The End that makes it, or the game as a whole, not a sandbox.

SpwnX · Oct 25th 2013

Quote from Omicron

Heck, I've seen people PortalGun the little healing crystal thingies to the overworld and use them as decorative elements in building, because they could. There's nothing about The End that makes it, or the game as a whole, not a sandbox.

Talking about those crystal thingies, if you bring it to the overworld using Greg's teleporter (yes it is doable) you can use them as an energy source!

wasmic · Oct 25th 2013

I do not understand why people keep blaming Jeb for making the game an RPG. First, Minecraft is still very much a sandbox. Second, Notch only handed minecraft over to Jeb AFTER adding the Enderdragon, potions and enchantments. Jeb, meanwhile, has been adding automation to vanilla minecraft. Before version β1.8 and 1.0, minecraft was going the technological direction with Minecarts, redstone, pistons and other things.

CastielAngelow · Oct 26th 2013

1.7.2 RELEASED

What I saw ingame right now are few problems.
They say then 1.7.2 have major bugfixes, but probably no that usefull for everyone.

- WorldGen probably take more time
- WorldGen make sometime mistakes for Extreme Hills biome and make it "cutted" at 64 y.

+ New WorldGen for enviroment. At Plains not so much grass, shapes are better, colors are good and few other things.

I have no freakin' idea what's changed. So, wait for ForgeCrafters to craft Forge?

What you think? How much time it takes, because I suppose then 1.7 will be released few weeks later and beside of it I start DEV my Addon and now they release this -_-

but, kinda' cool! I like 1.7.2 even if there's useless content which in better versions add other mods.

P.S.: NO SEAS ! That's so great

Epic Lulz · Oct 26th 2013

IC2 will probably wait a while for 1.7.3 and 1.7.4 and so on to be released first.

CastielAngelow · Oct 26th 2013

I hope you're right.

This will be fun playing with new things from mods. Almost every update of mc = new content of new versions of mods.

This'll be very funny update, beside of Vanilla, Forge side could be great.

What else was said?

LexManos: "The plans that I have for non-code related changes in the post 1.7 era will be cool but require a bit of restrcture"

Chicken_Bones is 16 years old. Kidding -_-

But, it looks like it take several times before they figure out how new minecraft "working"

Epic Lulz · Oct 26th 2013

Usually Forge takes advantage of the Minecraft code restructure mess to restructure their own code, add a few new features (such as the installer during 1.6). This may actually wait till Xmas.

CastielAngelow · Oct 26th 2013

Quote from Epic Lulz

Usually Forge takes advantage of the Minecraft code restructure mess to restructure their own code, add a few new features (such as the installer during 1.6). This may actually wait till Xmas.

Sound great. Still have prize to make addon to 1.6.X. Realize then for more then one reason. Even for skills, time etc. : )

'few new features' ? You know somethin' ? : )

Blaster · Oct 27th 2013

Normally companies that are releasing games that needs a game changing patch normally wait a few patches and bring in the new features slowly before a massive game changes. In my opinion, Mojang could do something similar and bring out game changing patches at a slower pace. I could understand this method during Alpha and Beta, but not now.

inucune · Oct 27th 2013

this too shall pass.

from what i can tell, the game have been streamlined quite a bit in the latest update, and while it may be a bit of a headache for modders right now, in the long run it should pan out.
Given how close we are to Halloween, i think this is the 'big update' for the year as far as vanilla players are concerned.
As for modders, I have yet to find anyone screaming 'leave minecraft vanilla.' The playerbase really does support what you guys do, and i don't think Jeb and the rest of Mojang are oblivious to the modders. Things like modding bring in revenue for them(follow the almighty dollar) in the long run because people see all the cool things you can do with the game, and as such go out and buy it. If they were honestly working against modding, they would run a file integrity check on the program every time you ran it, and that would be the end of that.

so once again: this too, shall pass.

MagusUnion · Oct 27th 2013

Quote from Blaster

Normally companies that are releasing games that needs a game changing patch normally wait a few patches and bring in the new features slowly before a massive game changes. In my opinion, Mojang could do something similar and bring out game changing patches at a slower pace. I could understand this method during Alpha and Beta, but not now.

I agree, which is why I made the comment about new Minecraft releases being similar to DLC content. I get that the optimization needs to be done, that's all good and dandy. But what I don't get is why they need to dramatically change the coding hierarchy from one Minecraft instance to the next. Consider Redpower, who has the hardest times to update due to how Mojang changes their code. In 1.3, Redpower was hit hard with many lighting changes and how servers control data packets. In 1.5, it was a revamp of redstone logic and the deprecation of sprite sheets that forced yet another rewrite of the mod. Granted, all of the mods suffered from such changes as a whole, but if Mojang cared about the modding community, I would like to think they wouldn't sharply change things in such a manner, and give the mod devs some more warning/transition time. Or at least, be receptive to the fact that there a community creations in existence who would like to update their contributions to the latest instance of Minecraft.

Beyond coding around Snapshots and praying that a few surprising new lines don't show up on official release, there isn't much preparation that a mod dev can do against the changes that Mojang brings...

Quote

If they were honestly working against modding, they would run a file integrity check on the program every time you ran it, and that would be the end of that.

Well, thankfully they don't do that, of course. Plus, it's not like they would have any valid reason to at all. In some ways, it just appears that Mojang just has a 'let things happen as they come' sort of response for updates and mods. I don't expect them just suddenly love or hate the mods for Minecraft, but I would think that more dialog between those in the community that code and Mojang itself would be highly beneficial for updates, new vanilla content, and current/future mod content as well.

I realize that it's something that they don't have to do, but I'd like to hope that they could consider the option nonetheless...

GregoriusT · Oct 27th 2013

I'm sure some Modders (I consider that myself aswell) will skip 1.7 and go directly to 1.8, due to some of the changes (and especially Bugs). For example you cannot relog on a Server without restarting MC + all the Network Glitches = People are getting tired of MCs loading time when they just want to play. And the Launcher currently makes that easyly possible, since you can now download older Versions without nostalgia or other downgraders.

CastielAngelow · Oct 27th 2013

Quote from GregoriusT

I'm sure some Modders (I consider that myself aswell) will skip 1.7 and go directly to 1.8, due to some of the changes (and especially Bugs). For example you cannot relog on a Server without restarting MC + all the Network Glitches = People are getting tired of MCs loading time when they just want to play. And the Launcher currently makes that easyly possible, since you can now download older Versions without nostalgia or other downgraders.

So, now standing on 1.6.X and you'll prepare mod for 1.8.X...? Good to know. I start to be hurry and working much more fast while 1.7 release so surprisely. uff.

Blaster · Oct 27th 2013

I am going to say something about Shrine Runner here. If anyone thinks that the map is vaporware then I assure you it isn't. On top of minecraft updates, I am in my final year before university and will be going into my end of year exams on Wednesday. I am going to do whatever I can to get a version out as soon as possible, unlikely for 1.7 but at least for 1.8. It WILL get released.

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