Wow, talked to a Technic user today

  • So here is a guy saying he is the boss at everything except for computer craft and RP2 computers. He has achieved "end game". I then tell him Technic/Tekkit is actually stolen. He says "no they have the mod author's permission". I then ask him why forestry was removed. He replies "because no one liked it, and it is a terrible mod". Then he goes intoa full out argument trying to get me to understand the Equivalent Exchange is not overpowered (all he does to achieve "end game" is use EE, no point in awesome RP2 sorting systems and giant IC2 power networks when you can transmute everything directly!).


    /rant.
    On the plus side it made me realize why I don't like EE so much: It simplifies things. A server makes ingots worth half as much EMC as the ores to prevent infinitely profitable loops. As soon as you get the stone thingy you don't need Macerators, or EU to power them. You just use the stone/table to turn all your ores directly into ingots. If you have EE it isn't fun anymore, instead of building cool things you can just use EE to get everything. Direwolf20 for example realizes this at least, and seems to avoid just using EE for everything.


    Also on a side note I started playing with a friend. Using a ton of industrial mods, really fun. We just started are first quarry (but he just left for a trip, trying to avoid the temptation to boot up the world and do everything without him).

  • Just ignore the ee fans. My friend forced me to put it on my server and now it's just some creative freebuild. Gotta start a new map without it now.

  • ores dont have an emc value dude


    well...


    except tungsten which is worth like 2 diamonds.

    The Truth! (!!!WARNING!!! DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU'RE RELIGIOUS IN ANY WAY!!!)


  • ores dont have an emc value dude


    well...


    except tungsten which is worth like 2 diamonds.


    Seriously? On my world we have about 12 tungsten! Considering we don't have that many diamonds it's pretty OP. My big dig against are the energy condensers. I mean you just stick a block of glowstone on top and wait, they don't even take that long.

  • From what I've heard, EE3 is undergoing a major rebalance for the next release. Anyways, couple flaws with your post, EE doesn't assign ore an EMC value, at least not in the latest release. I would still macerate the odds to gain the doubling effect, or build a Redmatter furnace (runs on EMC, doubles ore, can smelt, but does not double dusts).


    I find most of EE to be fairly balanced, except for Klein stars, and collectors. Once I get my first collector and relay, its only a matter of time until I have massive condenser farms producing more EMC than I know what to do with. On the other hand, I love the toys. My RP2 quarry would have been (more of) a pain in the ass without swiftwolf's ring.


    As to Tekkit users, they remind me of a religious radical. No matter how much evidence you throw at them, they just ignore you.

  • When i start my server, it will have EE but only for the bags, chests, and a couple rings. Thats about all u can use without turning survial into creative on hard. X(

    Ephesians 4:29
    Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up,
    as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.


  • So here is a guy saying he is the boss at everything except for computer craft and RP2 computers. He has achieved "end game". I then tell him Technic/Tekkit is actually stolen. He says "no they have the mod author's permission". I then ask him why forestry was removed. He replies "because no one liked it, and it is a terrible mod". Then he goes intoa full out argument trying to get me to understand the Equivalent Exchange is not overpowered (all he does to achieve "end game" is use EE, no point in awesome RP2 sorting systems and giant IC2 power networks when you can transmute everything directly!).


    /rant.
    On the plus side it made me realize why I don't like EE so much: It simplifies things. A server makes ingots worth half as much EMC as the ores to prevent infinitely profitable loops. As soon as you get the stone thingy you don't need Macerators, or EU to power them. You just use the stone/table to turn all your ores directly into ingots. If you have EE it isn't fun anymore, instead of building cool things you can just use EE to get everything. Direwolf20 for example realizes this at least, and seems to avoid just using EE for everything.


    Also on a side note I started playing with a friend. Using a ton of industrial mods, really fun. We just started are first quarry (but he just left for a trip, trying to avoid the temptation to boot up the world and do everything without him).

    41,000 users registered on the technic forums, not to mention terrabytes of downloading going on daily from new people trying out the pack, and you only found one idiot so far?
    I had a banner day yesterday kicking around a dozen or so no effort posting idiots plus one little worm who was trying to scam someone out of a legit minecraft account.



    This is all I will say on the forestry issue.
    Forestry was a fiasco and stems from sir sengir's complete lack of communication despite kakermix's many attempts. He never asked for it to be removed, he just inserted malicious code into his mod. The best anyone can guess is he apparently thought he was sneaky enough that it would be seen as the technic team's fault for destroying people's worlds, driving people away from the pack.
    It's a great mod, but I for one do not trust it one bit anymore and if it weren't for buildcraft being open source I wouldn't trust it anywhere near me computer either.

    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it!


  • I find most of EE to be fairly balanced, except for Klein stars, and collectors. Once I get my first collector and relay, its only a matter of time until I have massive condenser farms producing more EMC than I know what to do with. On the other hand, I love the toys. My RP2 quarry would have been (more of) a pain in the ass without swiftwolf's ring.


    As to Tekkit users, they remind me of a religious radical. No matter how much evidence you throw at them, they just ignore you.


    Well.. there's replacements for the toys. I built a RP2 quarry without EE fine. Used a bunch of vis in the process repairing the flying carpet though. (thaumcraft 2)
    Can Thaumcraft 2 duplicate items like EE? yes, however it's a lot more expensive and more balanced. Like it takes more to duplicate an item than you get out of it, something akin to at least 2x more.
    I found the game a ton more fun without EE at all. The mod's just full stop broken right now. We'll see what it's like with EE3 but I rather doubt it.

  • I use EE, but on my current world I don't have transmutation tablet and also I don't put non EE items in top slot of energy condenser. Items are really fun, but changing EMC into low value items (for example diamonds ;)) is just not fun. You can reach endgame EE in a few days, without self control really cool contraptions are becoming pointless.


    Also I'm not a fan of spending hours mining and destroying my landscape with quarries, so I get my non renewables (with forestry/BC/redpower it is basically ores) from mystcraft ages with destruction catalyst and black hole band. I also use NEI cheats, for example when I forget to bring enough torches while mining, or when I needed a lot of string quickly I NEI'ed myself bonemeal and constructed automatic flax farm with RP deployers.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Zjarek ().

  • did we really need to know he was a technic user? I mean we have been saying recently that we shouldn't need to know and that technic users shouldn't point out that they use technic. so shouldn't that apply to technic bashing as well?


    any way when it comes to OP stuff the advantage of a OP mod is you have the freedom to make things as hard or easy as you want. the disadvantage is you get competitive boastful self proclaimed "bosses" like this. its like he is the buff version of a nerfer instead of nerfing things to his advantage he likes things buffed to his advantage. or he is like some one who things he is a great builder/architect and thinks his big ugly cobble castle is better that the smaller voxel box quality wizard tower a few chunks away. or he thinks he is the best at tf2 cause he crashes n00b servers and owns every one that can't find thier "w" key.

    true balance is impossible in video games the best one can hope for is to make it really hard to guess which of 2 choices are better.
    and remember kids "NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF JOKES!"

  • 41,000 users registered on the technic forums, not to mention terrabytes of downloading going on daily from new people trying out the pack, and you only found one idiot so far?
    I had a banner day yesterday kicking around a dozen or so no effort posting idiots plus one little worm who was trying to scam someone out of a legit minecraft account.



    This is all I will say on the forestry issue.
    Forestry was a fiasco and stems from sir sengir's complete lack of communication despite kakermix's many attempts. He never asked for it to be removed, he just inserted malicious code into his mod. The best anyone can guess is he apparently thought he was sneaky enough that it would be seen as the technic team's fault for destroying people's worlds, driving people away from the pack.
    It's a great mod, but I for one do not trust it one bit anymore and if it weren't for buildcraft being open source I wouldn't trust it anywhere near me computer either.


    I use Forestry, I actually commend Sir Sengir for taking a move. In the past the Technic/Tekkit authors haven't given a s**t about what the mod authors say.

  • So you're perfectly fine with someone who refuses dialog and instead broods silently then uses malicious code to attack the playerbase of someone he doesn't like?
    I will never use forestry again, not matter how I obtain it. By showing he will gladly use malicious code to further his goals over simple words he has broken the trust I had, and I can no longer be reasonably sure that his code won't suddenly contain a lastlogin harvester or world corrupter (or worse) in some update, aimed at someone else he doesn't like.

    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it!

  • cut the drama both of you we don't need talk about technic it does not matter and if it did its not like anyone could do anything about it

    true balance is impossible in video games the best one can hope for is to make it really hard to guess which of 2 choices are better.
    and remember kids "NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF JOKES!"

  • So you're perfectly fine with someone who refuses dialog and instead broods silently then uses malicious code to attack the playerbase of someone he doesn't like?
    I will never use forestry again, not matter how I obtain it. By showing he will gladly use malicious code to further his goals over simple words he has broken the trust I had, and I can no longer be reasonably sure that his code won't suddenly contain a lastlogin harvester or world corrupter (or worse) in some update, aimed at someone else he doesn't like.


    I'll try to say this as simply as I can as Technic users aren't known for IQs in excess of 100. Here's my take on the whole Technic/Tekkit situation using a real world item of a car.


    -The Beginning


    I decide that I want to build a car, so I go to an auto shop and see that all of the really good car parts are made by different people. I sneak into the auto shop and take all of the necessary parts to build a car and by mashing all of the parts together, some of which are not meant to go together, (EE with pretty much everything) and I manage to create a user friendly and semi working car. With my new car I show some friends who decide that it is a good car and they decide to start letting their friends use this car


    -The Middle


    Pretty soon my friend's friend's friend's friend's friends decide to share it with their friends and the original owners of the parts, that I stole, come by, so I tell the original owners that I will pay for the parts of the car by telling my friends to tell their friends and so on that they should send money your way to cover the cost of my thievery, should anyone refuse, well too bad, their part is not coming out of my car


    -Now


    As the car, with the parts that I blatantly took, begins to need an update in order to be compatible with the latest version of auto regulation laws, one of the original owners of the parts thinks to himself that maybe he should change his part design to be incompatible with the other parts only when they are used in the stolen car, the users of the car are not happy and a shitstorm emerges from this. I reach an agreement with the disgruntled owner of the part and find a replacement part to use in the car, everybody is happy, but nope, I decide to be an ass and slander this part owner's part so that people might stop using his parts in the future (as referenced in the OP and by you when you said that you will never use SirSengir's stuff again) which ends up making people take sides against my blatant thievery, and the side for me (such as you) come up with stupid arguments such as that it's okay to blatantly have stolen these parts as long as 90% of the owners agreed to the terms after they were stolen, and that it's okay because I originally only let my friends use it and I can't be held accountable for their friend's actions and their friend's friend's actions in distributing this illegal car


    If this ever happened in the real non-digital world, people would be up on charges for obvious disregard of basic copyright laws, I think this becomes much more clear when applied to a real world object


    Anyway that is my argument in a nutshell, with a car, (cargument?) I hope you can take some logic from it

    Is the answer to this question no?


    Quote

    Hey don't take it so hard. Ignorance is part of this generation it seems. -the wise words of XFmax-o-l

  • Well said Crafter of mines. I personally havn't looked at SirSengirs stuff. Maybe I will he seems pretty cool.

    Quote

    That's a rather cool idea, but a lone tree is suspicious, better plant some more. So really... forget about solar-flowers, solar-trees are the next generation :P

  • So was this person you talked to, 11, maybe 12 years old?


    Nope much older, and that's the concerning part.


    Quote

    Well said Crafter of mines. I personally havn't looked at SirSengirs stuff. Maybe I will he seems pretty cool.


    You should, the mod is amazing. Biofuel (it's so green!!!!), bees and plenty of farms are fun to play with.


    Crafterofmines, your post should be stickied and become required reading material. Great analogy.


    I love Forestry (used it on my old single player world if I can free up enough IDs I'll install it on my new server), and I cannot wait to tear into all the cool new features. It provides a level of automation that BC was lacking (ie eventually running out of oil).

  • Passing, sorry but I cannot honor your request completely. This will be my final post in this thread though.


    Crafter: Boy, I've probably been driving longer than you've been alive. Do not make a car analogy and insult my intelligence if you're not smart enough to distinguish physical property law from copyright law.


    -
    Mod authors: "Come one, come all, come see this awesome car part schematic I have designed! Go ahead, use it to make your own cars awesomer!"


    Technic: "Hey guys, check out the awesome car I made by adding all the awesome schematics together and tweaking them to not break eachother. Here's the big schematic of all the little ones added together, if you want to try it yourself."


    Some modders: "That's cool."


    Other modders: "Hey, you can't use my schematic, you didn't ask me and I say everyone must figure out my schematic themselves!"


    Sengir: "..."


    Car users: *RAGE!FLAME!FORMSIDES!*


    Technic: "Wow, combining them was really popular when I meant it for my friends only. Other modders, here's 10x whatever adflypennies you'd ever see, I'm eating the costs of hosting, and I've directed all users to donate to you. We cool?"


    Other modders: "Yeah, sure, I guess."


    Sengir: "..."


    Car users: *RAGE!FLAME!IGNOREWHATTHEMODDERSTHEYARE'DEFENDING'SAY!*


    Technic: "We cool Sengir?"


    Sengir: "..."


    Technic: "Ok, whatever."


    Sengir: *Changes schematic so it cuts a users brake line if they go a speed multiple of 7* *Hopes no one notices*


    Technic: *Notices the glaringly obvious change* "Why did you do that Sengir?"


    Car users: *RAGE!RAGE!FLAME!*


    Sengir: "Don't want schematic in pack."


    Technic: "Ok, it's out."


    Sengir: "Ok, told the knife not to cut for now."


    Car users: *RAGE!FLAME!INSULT!BLOWCOMPLETELYOUTOFPROPORTION!*
    -


    Not saying what happened was ideal, but there are packs out there that flaunt the fact they don't have permission. Yet technic is the evil boogieman.


    Now, I understand you guys are incapable of dropping a subject you can vent your teen angst over so I'm going to just end my involvement in this with a question.
    How many of you actually understand the various laws with jurisdiction, have researched the subject yourself, and havr formed your own opinion.
    And how many are just repeating the opinion someone you emulate has?

    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it!


  • I love Forestry (used it on my old single player world if I can free up enough IDs I'll install it on my new server), and I cannot wait to tear into all the cool new features. It provides a level of automation that BC was lacking (ie eventually running out of oil).


    Yeah, i've gotten to the point where i'm going to turn off oil generation. I don't use the stuff anymore and it just clutters up the world.
    Plus with BC installed you can put logistics pipes in which is almost tailor made for dealing with Forestry's stuff. Love the supplier pipe, keep your forestry machines fed!
    So.. yeah, I generally end up with a tank tower of Biofuel waiting to use in engines.
    Though i've got to confess I never got around to using biofuel in my last time. Had the cow milker 9000 (redpower contraption shoveling buckets around) feeding milk to ~16 biogas engines :)

  • Quote

    I use Forestry, I actually commend Sir Sengir for taking a move. In the past the Technic/Tekkit authors haven't given a s**t about what the mod authors say.


    Agreed. More mod developers ought to show people that those who code have the power in the digital world, and to take from them without regard is to tempt their wraith...


    So you're perfectly fine with someone who refuses dialog and instead broods silently then uses malicious code to attack the playerbase of someone he doesn't like?


    If you trespass on someone's property, and that someone pulls a gun in your face and ask you to leave, do you sit there and protest? Sirsengir never wanted to be in the pack, and there was a long period of him asking for it to be removed. When he finally engaged against Technic, they retaliated in a shitstorm mess on the official MC forums. In result, the MC admins of the forums basically said 'his mod, his rules.. deal with it..', and Technic had no choice but to drop the mod.


    Forestry is HIS mod, and HIS code. The actions of him defending it do not make him a bad guy. That is simply a person who has said 'No' and is enforcing 'No'. Until you can come to grasp with the fact that 'No' is an acceptable answer from a person, your opinion on this matter is invalid...

    Would anyone like to try a Slowpoke Tail?! Only 1 Million Yen!


    Quote

    this isn't about arrogance or ego, I have a block that I put a lot of freaking work into


    Every Mod Author, in existence. And yet, you STILL say otherwise.