Godcraft's Open Video to the IndustrialCraft Development Team!

Just post untested buggy version *somewhere* and community will polish it well.

Main thing I'd like to see is the dev's being more open on whats getting done. Sure, continue to devour those who ask for release dates (They are annoying), but why Give them a reason to ask in the first place? Things such as "Few of the dev's are busy and the release will be delayed about a week" or "Working on getting a hotfix out for some critical bugs, look for a new version in a few days." THis combined with "Beta" builds would hopefully keep some people happy. Just my opinion.

first lets get one thing straight, ic2 is amazing.

right but it does let its community down a bit;
1)bugs, i constantly see "this is fixed in the development version" ok if its fixed let us have it please or atleast make it available with the list of bugs it adds and let us decide which will be worse for our servers, ghost cables and the bugged explosions are painful at mo
2) asking for updates = ban, ok so you dont want loads of people asking for updates, fine...keep us in the loop then
3) ninja update, we had a bug with slots on our machines in v1.106 ...turns out this was fixed in v1.106 ...yep same version number no anouncment of the fix, its hard enough keeping up with all the mods on a server with out some not changing version numbers

ways to fix:
have a jenkins, a recommanded build and a dev build. a lot of mods do that these days and it means we can use whats stable or the latest bug fixes, aware that the latest versions are not supported by support. that fixes 1(if we want the bug fixed versions there they are, 2(no need to ask for updates as we could see the new versions appearing etc) and 3(no more ninja updates)

use something like mantis to report bugs in developer versions and bingo you have a few more beta testers

Quote from mrgreaper

first lets get one thing straight, ic2 is amazing.

...

ways to fix:
have a jenkins, a recommanded build and a dev build. a lot of mods do that these days and it means we can use whats stable or the latest bug fixes, aware that the latest versions are not supported by support. that fixes 1(if we want the bug fixed versions there they are, 2(no need to ask for updates as we could see the new versions appearing etc) and 3(no more ninja updates)

use something like mantis to report bugs in developer versions and bingo you have a few more beta testers

Display More

Full ack for that! Like that idea!

A couple of months ago I asked about why there was zero information on the situation and I got banned by a mod that somehow read I was asking for a release date. I was then banned again for reason and I quote: "Don't make me start looking into the stuff I just had an exam about...". So yeah, that gave me the feeling of a very immature and childish administration that gives zero fuck about his supporters. That + the lack of information about what is going on kinda turned me off a lot. I ran the biggest website of a community of one of the biggest MMOs out there and it could take me like 2min, or even seconds if there was no image, to post an update on the main page so I don't see what was the problem here. As that guy in the video said, communication is probably an area where this project should be improved but to be honest it did improve after my posts.

I'm just another outsider who wants to post that I greatly appreciate the work Alblaka and his team are doing on IC2. I'm not a minecraft modder but I have released several big TCs for another game and I think the people who make lots of demands can't really appreciate what's appealing about it to us modders. I'm not sure how it is for you personally but modding is just another way of escapism for me and I feel bad that many people have tried to force you to approach it as a job instead of what it really is, a hobby.

Keep up the good work no matter what decision you make regarding it's future.

EDIT: also I have to say bugs are good to spot but it's understandable not being too enthustiastic about it if you're wanting to actually work on new content instead of going over past stuff. I had a beta tester for my stuff who constantly found errors and although it was good they were being found, it really drained my enthusiasm because I spent less time working on what I liked and more just going over and over old stuff.

Oh wow. Just wow. I had to log in just to respond to the video, because my feelings are the exact opposite of the OPs.

You know, I'm grateful that Industrial Craft keeps getting updated for new Minecraft versions. And 20 days is not a long time, try a half a year.

Half a year? Yes, look at how long Eloraam hasn't updated Redpower2 or said a word.

And you're whining about IC2's update cycle. Sheesh.

P.S. Is it that hard to join the development team and fix a bug if you care so much?

I'd love to see IC2 as an open source project... and probably any other closed mod out there that i care about. I just don't "get" what's the point of keeping game mods as closed projects.

If i ever create a game that becomes anywhere near successful i'll structure it's license in a way that forces all mods to be OS

Quote from Silty

Half a year? Yes, look at how long Eloraam hasn't updated Redpower2 or said a word.

Except that her stuff was mostly working, IC2 in it's current form is almost unplayable in SMP and has game-breaking bugs in SSP.

Quote

P.S. Is it that hard to join the development team and fix a bug if you care so much?

This is the last post on the recruitment thread that became an IC2 dev: Recruitment
It was made over a year ago, since then nobofy else joined the team via that thread, as far as i can see.

On of the guys applying was Rawcode, the dud that posted the unofficial bugfix for 1.106 and got yelled at for it.

So yeah, i assume joining the dev team isn't as easy, even if you can and want to contribute.

Quote from Adonesss

obvious troll is obvious, eloraam has actually updated us and the reason its taking so long is because she was to completely rewrite the mod for 1.3.

Not on her blog.

Quote

obvious troll is obvious, eloraam has actually updated us and the reasonits taking so long is because she was to completely rewrite the mod for1.3.
also joining the development team of Ic2 is/was super hard if you'd actually go through the responses you'd know that, now go **** yourself and don't respond unless you actually know something about the matter and read all the other responses.

Where in the responses did anyone say anything about how becoming an IC2 dev is hard EDIT: (Where in his response did he say anything about it not being hard)? Yes, Eloraam has stated on Twitter that there is progress on Redpower for 1.3, but is the

Quote

now go **** yourself

part really necessary? This is supposed to be a constructive thread where anyone can give their opinion, not one where you tell people they don't know crap about anything if they get one fact wrong

Ic2 was also remade to some degree since 1.3 make the merge to client/server. And from the Big "tech" mods, Ic2 was one of the first that made a working version, so its not to be surprising that it have some bugs (Specially since SMP was always the version that showed the more problems and bugs).

I don't really agree to some degree on making Ic2 Open source and find it to be unnecessary, the only two things the ic2 devs need to work its on releasing hotfixes for the really serious bugs to make a more stable release so people won't complain like whiny little bitches (Sorry had to) and leaving the rest of the annoying but not gamebreaking ones for a latter release (Either with new features or just a port from one MC version to another), and communication on the bugs, a simple list where you can mark bugs as acknowledged, not that it will stop the stupid people that repost bug, but at least will stop the complainers from, well complaining that they are not being read or that they are kept out of the loop.

So those two are really the reasons why kane its bitching so hard:

-No hotfixes for serious bugs.
-No communication from the devs about the status of the mod.

And yes get it over with, im the asshole of the forum, so i don't give a shit about how i word things.

Edit: Also if you think ic2 Public relations its bad, then you don't really bother about RedPower, she has been silent since a while ago and you don't hear people bitching about it too much. (No i don't give a crap that RP almost never have bugs, im just talking about the PR side)

Long time lurker first time caller Just wanted to say, I love IC2, (BC and RP as well) and I agree with the majority of MagusUnion's post here

I can't ask for anything more, I have cool toys and machines to play with, and more varied selection of ores to mine just to name my favorties. With other tech mods such as buildcraft and redpower installed as well also adds a challenge element that never gets old - trying to make any kind of cross-mod contraption work and work well. When I run into a bug or whatever, it is annoying but then I remember right quick that I didn't have to pay for this mod and as such it's a case of beggars can't be choosers.

The way I see it, IC and IC2 belongs to Alblaka, he shared it with us as a kindness. And while communication and a bug tracker and open source would be nice, Al and the devs don't have to do a thing to appease us. We didn't pay for the mod and as such they have no obligation to us. (This goes for Eloraam and spacetoad as well)

Except for this bit from the post, this statement is just false and while it might be a bit off topic, there are people that take everything they read as gospel without checking facts for themselves.

Quote from MagusUnion

Hell, even Eloraam is guilty of the same behavior when it comes to cross compatibility and the ability to create power converters (Spoiler Alert: She hates the shit out of them..)

Eloraam is one of the main reasons all our favorite "tech" mods work together at all.
After seeing that part of the post I remembered reading this on Eloraam's Blog

"I’ve been doing a lot of work behind the scenes to make the large tech mods interoperate well. The functionality in Forge that allows unlimited terrain sprites without performance loss? I wrote it (and it required a major overhaul of the rendering engine, at that). The interfaces to let machines with unusual interface shapes (like IC’s Induction Furnace or RP’s Alloy Furnace) interface with item movement systems like BC’s pipes, RP’s tubes, MFR’s conveyers, etc? I wrote those also. The Ore Dictionary to make mods with similar ores play nicely? That too."

and this part about 10 "page down" button presses down on the same blog post.

"Maeyanie
December 13, 2011 | 5:10 pm

Well, converting between pipes and tubes is really easy; just put a chest between. And I’m sure someone will write a IC2/blutricity converter, just the way several have sprung up for IC2/BC2 energy.

Eloraam
December 15, 2011 | 11:53 pm

And I plan to make that particular converter myself, too :)"

She doesn't hate them at all. What I think she hates/dislikes/is wary/scared of (and what I would be too in both her position and Alblaka's) is the idea of other people messing with her baby. She's going to make them herself, the only question is when lol

Anyway keep up the good work Al & team, but most of all have fun with it!

Edits: typos!

Quote

She doesn't hate them at all. What I think she hates/dislikes/is wary/scared of (and what I would be too in both her position and Alblaka's) is the idea of other people messing with her baby. She's going to make them herself, the only question is when lol

I'm fully aware of this, and am actually looking forward to seeing a realistic conversion system to come out of her. The reference was more about her heavy handed authority over her mod, which is just different to IC's philosophy of allowing add-on's and config options to turn stuff off and such...

Quote

I kinda agree with these, it is sad to be forced to play on old MC because newest ver is bugged.

So? What does Minecraft really add other than one piece of new world generation, a couple of different blocks, and a some minor variance to the game? Sometimes the systems are interesting, and sometimes the content is worth looking into. But I have yet t see Mojang content that makes me willing to play without IC2 or other mods for an extended period of time...

Plus, you can set up multiple instances of Minecraft via Magic Launcher and MultiMC, so it's not like you are forced to only play a .minecraft set one at a time...

Lets see if I can express my opinion clearly, despite being pumped full of cold meds.
You have a wonderful mod here, but it looks like you're having a bit of trouble dealing with how massive it has become. Turning something you love into a job is never as fun as it sounds, and that's basically what you would have to do in order to keep up with the demands of the community on your own; but it looks like you might be realizing this.

IC2 is not about to die, there are just too many people interested in it. But in the same respect, I urge you to consider options that might help it grow even more. In some ways stagnation is worse then death... So to that end I hope you really will seriously consider open-sourcing your project. I know it's hard to let something you created go, but look at this community; there is a huge number of people who love IC dearly and want to see it thrive. There's also a huge number of ass-hats, but it's the good dedicated people that are important. I suspect what you are feeling is something that's felt by almost every business owner when they decide to create a public corporation. Like going public, going open-source means a loss of control, it becomes the public's (or stockholders in the case of a corporation) property. That's scary, but it also allows the project to grow far beyond the capability of any single person.

It also doesn't need to be a complete loss of control, even open-source projects need guidance. You would still be able to vet changes before adding them to the maser source branch, but you could offload so much work to the community. Surely you see the advantages of letting others deal with the boring parts of your project, like fixing bugs, while you, or someone you trust, manage the direction of your masterpiece?

IC will always be your creation, nothing is going to change that. All I'm asking is that you let the community help you.

Short of rehashing the entire thread and writing a wall of text to address various opinions and points previously mentioned (and the fact that I replied once but was tired and accidentally clicked the 'Reset' button (what a stupid button, does ctrl+home, crtl+shift+end, delete\backspace really not work well enough? But anyway...)) I'll try to keep this short. Really just a couple of 'What-If's' so short should be somewhat easy, but I'm not helping at all by rambling on before I even get to the point, now am I...?

So.. What-If...?

• Releases were moved to a Jenkins-style delivery method? Official Recommended versions and updated 'possibly buggier' bug-fix versions?
• IC2 Development was opened up to more Devs?

1. explains itself, Seems to have proven itself as a system that works well for Minecraft Mod Development, might do well to adopt it here as well.

2. I need to comment on though. I'm not asking IC2 to go Open-Source, not yet at least. So how do I expect to get more Devs then? My what if came from an idea based around additional 'trusted' devs. Essentially, open IC2 up to the Addon Devs- Addon Devs have proven that they have at least a conceptual understanding of how MC, IC2, source code and programming in general all work and they also have a vested interest in keeping the IC2 code healthy and bug-free as nobody wants to use an addon for a buggy mod, right?

I dunno, I (like many others) loveloveLOVE IC2 and view it as an indespensible part of their game play. Other mods are fun to mess with, but my IC2, RP2, BC server is what keeps me coming back to play. As RP2 gets closer to possibly being released soon and I hear about the IC2 issues I start to doubt my desire to update to 1.3.2 as it seems it might be a better idea to rebuild my 1.2.5 jars to get the mods I've been waiting to add...

Every project needs an infusion of new blood from time to time, would the addon devs be interested if this was offered as an option?

(sonfoa... almost clicked 'Reset' again...)

Quote from Hungry_Myst

I suspect what you are feeling is something that's felt by almost every business owner when they decide to create a public corporation. Like going public, going open-source means a loss of control, it becomes the public's (or stockholders in the case of a corporation) property. That's scary, but it also allows the project to grow far beyond the capability of any single person.

Not really. Public companies become at the whim of short-sighted investors, while open source is open to development from whoever can code. You can still run a large company privately if you delegate properly. With a mod, you can't, because there's not millions of dollars floating around to keep people motivated to run the whole thing. Open source opens the floodgates for people volunteering in their spare time, and prevents the situation like the conflict with the dude who tried to fix the mod.

In the end, if Mojang lets us mod and patch their game in whatever way we want, what right does Alblaka have to prevent us from doing the same to his mod, as long as we only distribute the patch and don't claim his work as our own?

Quote from Silty

In the end, if Mojang lets us mod and patch their game in whatever way we want, what right does Alblaka have to prevent us from doing the same to his mod, as long as we only distribute the patch and don't claim his work as our own?

Because alblaka isn't mojang? and Ic2 isn't minecraft either.

And in no way does mojang says "Any mod for our game must be open source and allow any kind of flithy paws into their code"

Edit: @below: Never said RP PR its good, i frequent that thread and see for my self how some people start bitching but usually doesn't scale for more than a few posts, must have missed that one.