Random rants about aspects of game Balance and democracy

1st Official Post

    these new recipes are quite unbalanced for the quantity of materials required most of these changes to the recipes should damn well yield a lot more items than they do for the number of diamonds complex parts and other resource intensive changes to the recipe or just make the recipes for the required components yield more of them basic laws of the universe state that when anything is mixed in any ratio the outcome is generally similar in volume and mass to the combined ingredients yet all that extra material is seemingly randomly lost which always irked me about these mods when it came to alloys and cables it is completely wasteful and doing this to a mod that has already taken a turn towards the asinine is just frustrating and retarded. WE ALREADY HAVE GREG TECH TO DO THIS.


    I find this drive towards making all these various industrial mods more and more difficult to be frustrating and this attempt to copy Greg tech is quite disgusting. there is making a game fun and challenging and than there is making a game waste a users precious time with redundancy and grinding. this is not an mmo it is a game primarily to see what you can create and people seem to have lost sight of that.


    users should have a choice between whether or not they want hard or easy recipies for their industrial mods. just like the games have a difficulty slider so should these mods have configurable options to allow the admins to increase or decrease the difficulties based on user preference


    a lot of people are moving away from ic2 as TE and Ender I/O are maturing and this trend is putting yet more nails in the lid of an already fairly tight coffin.

    A little bit more punctuation would help getting your point across.


    Can you give us specific examples? Since I'm a GT player I can't really estimate the feeling of vanilla IC2.

    IC2 has now been balanced with other mods in mind. As such, if your playing Minecraft with just IC2 then play with other mods and see what happens.

    • Official Post
    Quote from RawCode

    what recipe you dont like and why?


    Pretty sure it was manly the energium dust. Which should be config on how much the recipe makes IMO to stop things like this.

    145 Mods isn't too many. 9 types of copper and 8 types of tin aren't too many. 3 types of coffee though?

    I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realise that what you read was not what I meant.


    ---- Minecraft Crash Report ----
    // I just don't know what went wrong :(


    I see this too much.

    Quote from corinanth

    a lot of people are moving away from ic2 as TE and Ender I/O are maturing and this trend is putting yet more nails in the lid of an already fairly tight coffin



    Fratricide is sometimes a necessity in certain circumstances....

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    Quote

    this isn't about arrogance or ego, I have a block that I put a lot of freaking work into


    Every Mod Author, in existence. And yet, you STILL say otherwise.

    given that a stack of coal, 8 flint, and a piece of obsidian can be made into a diamond, i don't think the recipe is too far off balance. i agree that maybe it should output 2, but i won't cry foul just yet.


    i like the direction the experimental is going. some tweaking will be needed to find the best solution.

    I process every last scrap of coal into diamonds, and I'm still permanently out of diamonds. Every advanced building project I do is limited by diamonds, always, and takes significantly longer because of it. This is despite having an ocean quarry running and also mining manually (with silk touch) for coal and diamond.


    Note that I have no even thought about trying a MFSU yet, after a month's playing in that world. That will probably something after I can finally afford a replicator (another 25 diamonds, augh) so I can make diamonds out of uu-matter. Screw iridium, GraviSuite's advanced nano chest is good enough and I need diamonds.


    The other thing I am regularly short on is copper, although that is probably more due to the way I handled worldgen (running ATG and using TE to spawn guesstimated amounts of copper at completely different y-levels than usual) and the fact that I am building tons upon tons of reactor components which eat electric motors (and thus copper) for breakfast. IC2 on its own spawns a large amount of copper in a somewhat narrow band, so it's easy to get enough for the recipe costs as they are.

    • Official Post

    While energy crystals are now 4 times as expensive, most of the recipes which used to contain them require less crystals than before or even just a lead battery - which doesn't cost any diamonds. The MFSU costs 4 times as much, but its comparable to 4 old MFSUs capacity or power wise or even 16 to have both the same capacity and power (4 parallel lines of 4 in series).


    Diamonds aren't really that hard to come buy, branch mining around y=12 yields plenty, esp. if you start using the mining laser in horizontal mode, a fortune enchanted pick for mining the diamonds and/or nv goggles. A max size quarry run yields about 50-60.


    Adjustable difficulty levels are planned, but I think the current setting is a good baseline for someone who doesn't rush through the tech tree just to get bored quickly and start over.

    game shoud provide a bit of chellenge, not lots of grinding.


    what about industrial diamonds that cost stack(s) of coal, diamond(s), flint, obsidian, lots of machines (all) in order to be created?


    We harvested some diamonds, macerate them to dust, purify with water (or coolant), enrich with coal, compress with flint and obsisian, cook in special funace, alloy with redstone, enrich and purify again, cook again in mold, perform some tests that failed in 95% chances, macerate and process again.


    Fail shoud cost only energy, everything else shoud recycle with 100% return chance.


    Process shoud allow shotcuts just like ore, player can use diamonds directly, or perform full tech process for 400%-800% output per raw resource but with extreme costs in energy and infrastructure.

    Quote from corinanth

    basic laws of the universe state that when anything is mixed in any ratio the outcome is generally similar in volume and mass to the combined ingredients yet all that extra material is seemingly randomly lost which always irked me about these mods when it came to alloys and cables it is completely wasteful and doing this to a mod that has already taken a turn towards the asinine is just frustrating and retarded. WE ALREADY HAVE GREG TECH TO DO THIS.


    I find this drive towards making all these various industrial mods more and more difficult to be frustrating and this attempt to copy Greg tech is quite disgusting.

    I agree with you on the loss of mass problem. As a chemist, the lack of mass balance bothers me more than a little. Also, when I noticed that it now requires a hammer to make iron plates, which are now used instead of iron ingots, I was reminded of GregTech. I check the forums and, lo and behold, the creator of GregTech is working directly on IC2 now. It is no coincidence that they are starting to look similar, it's the same person making them.


    I like the ideas he brings to the table, but material mass balance is requested, even if that comes with making said materials required in larger amounts for recipes. It just feels right.

    Quote from Joe

    I agree with you on the loss of mass problem. As a chemist, the lack of mass balance bothers me more than a little. Also, when I noticed that it now requires a hammer to make iron plates, which are now used instead of iron ingots, I was reminded of GregTech. I check the forums and, lo and behold, the creator of GregTech is working directly on IC2 now. It is no coincidence that they are starting to look similar, it's the same person making them.


    I like the ideas he brings to the table, but material mass balance is requested, even if that comes with making said materials required in larger amounts for recipes. It just feels right.


    The IC² Forge Hammer has a 1:1 ingot-plate ratio.

    I personally have loved this mod since beta minecraft. The changes to uu are really troubling though. What's the point of the mass fab if you can't use it to help make whatever resource you're short on? By the time I will be able to make any use of it I will no longer need it.

    The plate thing kind of makes sense, except that it should take only 6 per block (1 block = 1 cube, cube has 6 faces). And the process by which plates are made, should be faster. Like, crafting more than one ingot with the hammer to make more than one plate.
    There could be implemented different tiers of coils - basic, intermediate and advanced. The basic ones would be used to make basic motors - only one coil, 3 plates, and an ingot of Iron should be used in the crafting of those motors, for simplicity. (iron ingot is broken up to make Magnet & Core/axle-thing)
    A machine could be added, as some sort of electric assembly machine (electric crafting machine/factory), which can be configured to produce the motors and other stuff relatively quickly, while being cheap to make. It would have a 3x3 grid for the ghost-items, a chest-sized storage bay for materials, and an output slot or two.
    There should also be advanced versions of both the electrocrafter and the Metal Former, which work at a much faster rate.
    It also makes sense, for those recipes that "shrink" items, if they are manipulated by a machine like the compressor, as it moved the particles of the substance closer together (like how the aluminium platings for Airplanes are made, from large blocks of aluminium)
    Energium dust should be removed entirely - the method for making Energy Crystals could be to compress several Redstone Blocks into dense redstone bricks, which 8 of would be combined with a single Diamond to create the Redstone Chunk - said chunk would then be compressed for an energy crystal.
    Diamond dust should be removed entirely, because diamonds can not even be scratched with Flint and Iron (macerator or however the dust is made)
    This, and some other changes, would hopefully restore some balance.

    Quote from Omicron

    I process every last scrap of coal into diamonds, and I'm still permanently out of diamonds. Every advanced building project I do is limited by diamonds, always, and takes significantly longer because of it. This is despite having an ocean quarry running and also mining manually (with silk touch) for coal and diamond.


    Note that I have no even thought about trying a MFSU yet, after a month's playing in that world. That will probably something after I can finally afford a replicator (another 25 diamonds, augh) so I can make diamonds out of uu-matter. Screw iridium, GraviSuite's advanced nano chest is good enough and I need diamonds.


    The other thing I am regularly short on is copper, although that is probably more due to the way I handled worldgen (running ATG and using TE to spawn guesstimated amounts of copper at completely different y-levels than usual) and the fact that I am building tons upon tons of reactor components which eat electric motors (and thus copper) for breakfast. IC2 on its own spawns a large amount of copper in a somewhat narrow band, so it's easy to get enough for the recipe costs as they are.


    Recently, I picked up a Custom Ore Gen. mod in order to deal with some of these factors. I don't feel vMC world gen. was designed around the heavy resource requirements that these mods ask for, so some alteration to base iron and diamond yields may seem necessary. Plus, it adds an extra level of customization to your gameplay, lol...

    Would anyone like to try a Slowpoke Tail?! Only 1 Million Yen!


    Quote

    this isn't about arrogance or ego, I have a block that I put a lot of freaking work into


    Every Mod Author, in existence. And yet, you STILL say otherwise.

    Quote from MagusUnion

    Recently, I picked up a Custom Ore Gen. mod in order to deal with some of these factors. I don't feel vMC world gen. was designed around the heavy resource requirements that these mods ask for, so some alteration to base iron and diamond yields may seem necessary. Plus, it adds an extra level of customization to your gameplay, lol...


    Have you made and used the IC2 Miner/Advanced Miner? Automine a few chunks and you'll have more resources than you can spend in short order. There's actually just as much iron in a chunk as coal.