The one and only [OFFICIAL] Technic discussion thread.

So basically tekkit takes stuff which is free, puts it in an app, and distrubutes it for free.

You can throw all legal mumbo-jumbo at me, but I don't see the harm in this.

Quote from Hulkie

So basically tekkit takes stuff which is free, puts it in an app, and distrubutes it for free.

You can throw all legal mumbo-jumbo at me, but I don't see the harm in this.

So you don't see a problem from stealing from a store then either? Cause that's sorta what they were doing when they didn't have permission.
It's the mod makers' intellectual property, they have full control of what can happen with it. The tekkit guys were stealing, period. They claim they asked for permission from SirSengir for Forestry. They lied as they never did. SirSengir asked for it to be removed, they didn't. They only removed it when he forced them to by adding code to be technic/tekkit hostile. So yeah.. there's your problems with them. They're a bunch of liars and thieves and they see no problems with this.

edit: the full story, straight from SirSengir

Quote from GregoriusT

HEY!
Do not direct them to me. Even when they would ask me for it. My answer would be:

Put Forge into jar
Put ModX into modsfolder
Play

I said somebody knowledgable like, and then put your name there because you seem to be the go to guy for the noobs, or at least that was the impression I got here, although given your statement of being "kind enough to help him" I see now that this is probably not the case

Quote from Ook

So you don't see a problem from stealing from a store then either? Cause that's sorta what they were doing when they didn't have permission.
It's the mod makers' intellectual property, they have full control of what can happen with it. The tekkit guys were stealing, period. They claim they asked for permission from SirSengir for Forestry. They lied as they never did. SirSengir asked for it to be removed, they didn't. They only removed it when he forced them to by adding code to be technic/tekkit hostile. So yeah.. there's your problems with them. They're a bunch of liars and thieves and they see no problems with this.

edit: the full story, straight from SirSengir

That's interesting. I know for sure Kaker tried to contact him (post inclusion but attempted none the less) so I guess it just becomes a matter of one persons word against another, and thus doesn't matter. It's nice of him to compliment me though. Even Sengir recognizes that I'm a straight shooter, so you know that I haven't and wont be bullshitting or lieing to you here. Honestly its useless to talk about the forestry incident because both we and sengir have moved on. He never actually asked for it to be removed, which he doesn't deny. We did make attempts at peace but it just wasn't meant to be, and sengir hid that attack code in there. Our opinion is that his attack was missguided. We don't think he should have attacked technic users since his problem was with the technic team itself. He ended up hurting thousands of people who enjoyed his mod, which goes against every thing a modding community should stand for. And those people wont trust him anymore. Love us or hate us, we want positive changes in the modding community. Anything that punishes a person who enjoys your mod is disgusting in our eyes. Espeiclally when all this stuff is free.

Quote from CrafterOfMines57

The one thing I see wrong with Technic right now though is the fact that assuming SirSengir was truthful, he claims that forestry downloads went up either by about 200% or to 200% following his forceful removal from Technic, do you believe that the downloads were from people using the pack (unikely given your claim that most people turn to Technic as a result of lack of ability to install mods) or from the publicity generated from the incident that is technically (no pun intended) attributed to the pack? If it is the latter, doesn't that mean that Sengir got more recognition in leaving than he did while his mod was put in the pack?

The problem here is context. That number sounds really good when you look at it. A 200% increase in downloads is a good thing, but not when you consider context. One of the benifits of technic is that it lets more people then were previously able to download and play mods. We mirrior so that we can serve the files to literally a million people. It's something that would be too expensive and impracticle for modders on their own to be expected to do, but we have the resources to offer it for a collection of modders at once, and our goal is to make the good mods as popular and accessable as possible. If you consider that sengirs traffic only doubled when we stopped including him, you have to also consider that it's not a 200% increase, its a massive decrese. It means that hundreds of thousands of people who enjoyed his mod didn't go and download it from him after its removal from technic. By all means, his download link should have broken from the sudden surge of traffic, because forestry is great and an awesome mod. Problem was is that he burned the people who enjoyed it and the minecraft community isn't very forgiving. Believe me, I know that all too well.

All this stuff is history though, its pointless to keep rehashing and chewing the same drama like flavourless gum. It's time to just move on.

Quote from CrafterOfMines57

The drama is kind of still going on as evidenced by the whole 4+ threads devoted to just this

Problem is, most of the stuff carrying the drama in these threads is actually just made up. I'm thinking a few people are die hards and don't want to let things move on. In reality though, we're not doing anything that people can really get mad about anymore, Technic is getting much more professional and legit, so people are grasping at straws and spinning what they can to keep it going. I'm hoping the false rumors keep getting more and more outlandish to the point where I get my own folk legend. That would be rad maximum.

Also I would assume I'm allowed to post here because Alblaka is a cool dude and these aren't the BTW forums. I'm just a person and these are my opinoins. I'm not here respresenting technic.

Quote from Cheapshot

The problem here is context. That number sounds really good when you look at it. A 200% increase in downloads is a good thing, but not when you consider context. One of the benifits of technic is that it lets more people then were previously able to download and play mods. We mirrior so that we can serve the files to literally a million people. It's something that would be too expensive and impracticle for modders on their own to be expected to do, but we have the resources to offer it for a collection of modders at once, and our goal is to make the good mods as popular and accessable as possible. If you consider that sengirs traffic only doubled when we stopped including him, you have to also consider that it's not a 200% increase, its a massive decrese. It means that hundreds of thousands of people who enjoyed his mod didn't go and download it from him after its removal from technic. By all means, his download link should have broken from the sudden surge of traffic, because forestry is great and an awesome mod. Problem was is that he burned the people who enjoyed it and the minecraft community isn't very forgiving. Believe me, I know that all too well.

Look at it any way you want in terms of popularity of Foresty, while his removal from Technic may given him a massively smaller audience, an increase of even 1% is still more money in Sengir's pocket than he ever received from Technic due to his rejection of the donations and in the end, it is his property which he is free to use however he wants to

Quote

It's not property, it's information. They don't have full control. Pesky freedom eh?

Ooohhh, so that's why it's perfectly legal to distribute Minecraft.jar to anyone that wants a free copy, that makes so much sense, and while we're at it, why don't we just hack into IBM or Microsoft and take all of their code to freely distribute because, hey "They don't have full control" and it totally won't result in a legal shitstorm

Quote from CrafterOfMines57

Ooohhh, so that's why it's perfectly legal to distribute Minecraft.jar to anyone that wants a free copy, that makes so much sense, and while we're at it, why don't we just hack into IBM or Microsoft and take all of their code to freely distribute because, hey "They don't have full control" and it totally won't result in a legal shitstorm

Actually, that's not entirely the same thing. Microsoft and IBM sell their products for money(ofc). SirSengir distributes his mod for free. The only actual thing the technic makes are directly stealing from him are a) website traffic, and b) the work he has put into the coding on the mod.
Mods are intellectual property of their respective authors, so that's false too.
Please don't start a flamewar with false arguments.

Quote from Cheapshot

Alright, since the lie keeps getting repeated, I will state it again:

KakerMix has never asked or contacted me about permission before or after inclusion.

The rest is said in my post linked above. If there is a downside to not having one's mod in the Technic launcher, I still have to see or experience it. My dropbox is able to withstand quite a bit of bandwith usage, assumptions to the contrary notwithstanding.

[Snipped snarky remark in the interest of not faning the flames further.]

Quote from Sengir

Alright, since the lie keeps getting repeated, I will state it again:

KakerMix has never asked or contacted me about permission before or after inclusion.

The rest is said in my post linked above. If there is a downside to not having one's mod in the Technic launcher, I still have to see or experience it. My dropbox is able to withstand quite a bit of bandwith usage, assumptions to the contrary notwithstanding.

I think you are overestimating the importance of the technic launcher and are mistaking the echo chamber that are the technic forums for the minecraft community.

Display More

That's why I said it becomes a matter of one persons word against another to the point where it becomes pointless. Maybe something could have happend, like the email he drafted and sent got spam filtered or something. I read it so I know it existed. It doesn't really matter though because it was all months ago and people should really move on. I think you probably want that as well, at least from the way I interpreted it post. I was surprised to see people still arguing about it, and I probably wouldn't have stepped in to say anything if a lot of the stuff people were saying wasn't just made up.

As for the downside to not having stuff in the launcher, you wouldn't experience it. The people who are experiencing the downside are all the people who are no longer using and enjoying forestry who were before. It also doesn't matter though. It's your mod. For what its worth, we all loved it and still think it's great.

Quote from Cheapshot

That's why I said it becomes a matter of one persons word against another to the point where it becomes pointless. Maybe something could have happend, like the email he drafted and sent got spam filtered or something. I read it so I know it existed. It doesn't really matter though because it was all months ago and people should really move on. I think you probably want that as well, at least from the way I interpreted it post. I was surprised to see people still arguing about it, and I probably wouldn't have stepped in to say anything if a lot of the stuff people were saying wasn't just made up.

As for the downside to not having stuff in the launcher, you wouldn't experience it. The people who are experiencing the downside are all the people who are no longer using and enjoying forestry who were before. It also doesn't matter though. It's your mod. For what its worth, we all loved it and still think it's great.

I have never received any e-Mail from KakerMix or anyone else identifying as from Technic/Tekkit. Don't even think I published a useable address anywhere in conjunction with Forestry - though I don't doubt some (working and non-working) addresses can be found on the internet.

And yes, I want to drop the issue. However, I won't stand by and let Kaker claim that he contacted me, when in fact he did not.

Quote from CrafterOfMines57

Ooohhh, so that's why it's perfectly legal to distribute Minecraft.jar to anyone that wants a free copy,

Depending on where you live that might very well be legal.

Quote

that makes so much sense, and while we're at it, why don't we just hack into IBM or Microsoft and take all of their code to freely distribute because, hey "They don't have full control" and it totally won't result in a legal shitstorm

Strawman strawman strawman.

This conversation should have died a long time ago.

Go calculate the amount of influence this whole conversation has had.

Agreed. Nobody is going to benefit any farther. Shut up and just be constructive. Don't talk about Tekkit, Tekkit don't talk about you.

I'm going to regret entering the conversation. Oh well. Here's how I see it. Technic put together a collection of other peoples work, forced them to play nicely together, and put them out on the web, with several added features mostly relating to the secretarial side of running mods (updating, config files, et cetera). From their point of view, they are doing the modders a favor by making the mods more accessible to a wider (perhaps less technologically inclined) audience. A laudible goal.

On the other hand, the modders, including sengir, feel like this is an unauthorized distribution of their code. I understand the point that the law is really unclear on this (at least for US and EU), but in my opinion, the mod makers get to decide what to do with their work. They put hours upon hours of time into these mods, time they could be using in other pursuits. And let's face it, we, the mod using community, are not the easiest people to get along with. They make these mods either as a labor of love for the community, or for pursuit of art for its own sake. Shouldn't we respect that, and allow them to do with of as they may? Letter of the law be damned.

Furthermore, I've seen several comments about how these mods are free, and therefore should be able to be freely distributed. Now, they are free to the user, but that does not mean that there is not a profit loss occuring by the use of a modpack. Most mid authors use adfly, if a similar service, and receive a small revenue from each download. So, each download of a modpack is in fact a revenue loss to a modmaker such as Sengir.

Now, I admit that I dont agree with the inclusion of a sabotage code within forestry (though I will admit to being curious as to how it was done), but that still doesn't change the points above. As to the he said game, I'm inclined to beleive Sengir. He has less to lose if he did in fact receive a request but did not respond to it. I would say that in this situation, a lack of response should be treated as a negative response. It's his creation, and I don't agree with unauthorized distribution without his explicit permission.

Anyways, that's my two cents on the matter.

How about we forget about legal things? No modder is going to take a legal stand (they don't have the resources (or just don't want to waste them) nor the time/trouble it could cause). And no one is going to suddenly ditch Tekkit/Technic because it's illegal (those who would probably already have). Also the modding community does not exist of a single country, where I live just by downloading Technic you probably risk having your internet suspended (if the modder asks, which I doubt he/she would).

Its more of a moral standpoint. I'm a nice old lady giving you a free apple, in fact I'm going to give you as many apples as you want (I might make you spend 5 seconds of your time looking at something to earn me some income). My only request is that you don't give it to other people (you're free to send them to me, or to share it with your friends in private thou). Then another guy comes along, he starts taking all our apples (somehow bypassing the 5 second wait that earns me income) he then puts it with a lot of other apples (whoever said they had been forced to be compatible is wrong, its pretty easy to get them to play nicely) and giving them to other people. Without even asking, when some people request the removal of their apples from this "pack" they are refused. In the end one person has to put a chemical in their apple that makes it rot when put in the pack (the analogy breaks here, a rotting apple is far more harmful than what Sengir did) before the authors of the pack get their act together.

The users of this pack then come and flood the houses (which are deprived of users by said pack) of the original author asking for help with issues caused by said pack and insulting the few that remain thankful of the growers work.

Also Tekkit/Technic are hardly good packs. They don't launch properly which causes crashing, bugs and other issues. My friend downloaded it, and told me. I decided to just join him and play for a while. We crashed, glitched and things went haywire due to may issues in the pack (many of witch are very basic, beginner errors like launching under the wrong environment). We have since ditched Technic/Tekkit and are now happily playing on my own server (with the occasional bug, which I can quickly fix via configs or patches I can find online).

BbqRoast, how about WE STOP DISCUSSING TEKKIT/TECHINC! We had stopped, and then, seemingly only to create more dissent, you post about it again. I would take that as a "COME AT ME BRO", and reply to your post, re-flaming the thread. Just keep your mouth shut, your opinion is known...